Not to tell my SIL she ate half a cup of yoghurt?

[twilight3]

I love hosting family gatherings and often do so. My SIL is vegan and I don't mind taking extra care for her dinner, not hard work anyway.

Twice a year I boil two kg of chickpeas and make hummous, most of it with yoghurt to make it low fat, and some with tahini. Then I freeze it in small portions, sometimes for us and I often serve it at dinner parties.

You canobviously see where this is going, last weekend I served SIL what I thought was vetgan tahini, and this morning I went to the freezer to get some of the yoghurt kind but it was all gone... I have no idea how I mixed it up. I also now remember her going more than once "your hunnous is really yummy tonight, you should give me the new recipe". I said there's no new recipe and she insisted "no, I know your hunnous, it's always good but you've done something special to it tonight".

It all makes sense now... I think I shouldn't tell her... I mean, what's the point?

AIBU?

I think it is either Japan or China where they don't consume as many dairy products as in the UK and don't have many cases of breast cancer.

Actually, going against the grain, I'd tell her. She's sure to realize sooner or later that you make a yoghurt-based version and might think you tricked her deliberately or didn't care about how she felt.

She may be upset, but surely it's better than her reaction if she finds out you didn't tell her.

valhalla, thanks for the info, it's always interesting to hear about this kind of thing. Also, wishing you the very best for the future, sounds like you've been through a lot.

ImFab I'm not a scientist so can't remotely weigh in one the debate, but just because there's a correlation with countries that don't eat dairy doesn't mean that dairy is definitely the cause - Asian diets are radically different from ours in many ways.

[disclaimer that I'm a veggie who is very odd about dairy, esp milk, but don't feel that I could balance my diet properly without consuming some of it]

'scuse me, on the debate.

That's interesting. I didn't know about the milk/breast cancer link. Maybe I should go back to being vegan.

I had not thought of that LRD...
Gosh, I'm panicking a bit now, I think I should find other hummous recipes just in case she finds out I make a yoghurt version, so I can tell her, "no, what you had was X".

Argh, I hate lying, even more to go into trouble of looking for a good lie..
Probably won't see her again until Easter though and we rarely (more like never) talk on the phone about food.

Milk is intersting: we have a genetic casein intolerance (milk protein) and many consider it a coincidence that we also have ASD in the family: depsite a casein free diet being used extensively alongside a gluten free diet to reduce ASD symptoms. try getting teh establishment to take it seriously though, even though research is gradually emerging.

But to the OP- why upset her? It was an accident, no harm meant. if she mentions any reaction (taking milke after a long time DF can cause upset tummy etc) consider it as it it were me (not vegan, DF) i;d assume the symptoms were caused by some kind of mild poisoning (!) but no point ohterwise.

Def don't tell, no point is there? it's done now, and no harm done either.

Ghosteditor, thank you. :)

I cooked a vegan chilli for friends of ours, only one of whom is actually vegan, 2 others are veggie and the rest meat eaters.

I realised later that the meat replacement I used had egg protein in it and felt terrible. I asked one of the other friends (a veggie) if i should tell him and she said no, because it turns out that when he has worked at functions (he is in the entertainment business) and there hasnt been vegan food he has eaten cheese sandwiches etc!

I no longer feel guilty and I didnt tell him! :o

Hi,

Just to weigh in on the dairy vs breast cancer thing...

I am a scientist - not medical though - and I was intrigued by this, so I went and did a dairy + breast cancer search of the pubmed website. (Pubmed is an academic database that houses abstracts of all medical studies published in academic journals, and I find it helpful for figuring out what, in the mass of health advice we get, is worth keeping on board, and what isn't.)

At least the first few studies that it turned up seemed to be going in the opposite direction - a slight protective effect of dairy consumption on breast concer, and a more marked protective effect of calcium levels on breast cancer. See

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20658314

in particular.

There might be a link, but I'd be surprised if dairy consumption, which has been falling in recent decades, (? I think?), was a major cause of breast cancer, which has exploded in recent decades. IIRR the most important factor seems to be not having kids (3 times greater risk of breast cancer) or having kids after thirty (double the risk of breast cancer) and I suspect that the main reason for the difference with East Asia is that the
generation of East Asians currently of an age to be getting breast cancer had their kids young. Also possibly East Asian are just genetically less susceptible to breast cancer?

Thanks Kirsty75006 it's good to see some evidence the other way. I guess there needs to be a fully comprehensive review of the available research by an independent party, but it's not exactly a sexy topic!

Sorry for the thread hijack OP.

no need to apologise, I find it all very interesting. When SIL talked to me about it a couple of years ago I spent a considerable amount of time researching it and found so much contradicting information by various sources that decided it was not worth a radical lifestyle choice.

Used to use pubmed at uni, had forgotten about it, thanks for bringing it up Kirsty

Veggie DH made himself a sausage sandwich from some cooked veggie sausages in the fridge and proclaimed it delicious.

The next day I found the veggie sausages still in the plastic box - he had had the DC's meat ones.

I told him, thinking he would find it funny. He was quite upset and dismayed. I wish I hadn't told him now.

Hi,

Flicking through the papers it seems the picture is pretty complex...

If I understand rightly, there are at least four chemicals in dairy that are known or strongly suspected to be linked to breast cancer, two of which (calcium and vitamin d) decrease the risk and two of which (saturated fat and some hormone whose name I forget) increase it. I guess that means that it's perfectly possibly that dairy might be good against breast cancer in some circumstances and bad for it in others - eg (this is pure speculation) good for prevention but bad once you ahve cancer...

OK, back to cleaning the house...

Twilight - I wouldn't tell her because she is so over-the-top worried about it affecting her health.

If she had been sick I would have told her.

You are normally very careful and it was a genuine accident which I am sure you wont make again! There's nothing to be gained from telling her and a lot to lose - she regards you as someone she can trust to be careful (and she can!!) and her worrying herself over something she can't change, that will have no minimal impact on her health.

[I'm vegetarian - I used to be vegan. I don't eat much dairy now and don't eat eggs/honey/buy leather etc, but while travelling I find being strictly vegan very difficult.]

There is a lot of research out there linking dairy consumption to girls going through puberty earlier and earlier. Not to mention the drugs used on the cows getting through to the milk supply. There's a lot to read about and consider if anyone is interested.

I wouldn't tell her.

You truly didn't do it on purpose, she has no allergy, she would really fret if you told her and you are going to make sure that a mix up like this doesn't happen again.

What can be gained from telling her?

she would know that she accidentally consumed it. And what can she do about that? How will that knowledge help her? She can't uneat it and she'll only feel bad and it might strain your relationship.

That reminds me that I heard an interesting article on radio 4 last week about milk. Anyone else hear it?

They were simplifying the science massively of course but there seemed to be a suggestion that some studies are showing that milk does have saturated fats, which are normally considered to be bad for health (they mentioned cardiovascular diseases), but there are some recent studies which may show that people who consume a high amount of dairy are actually showing a 10-15% reduction in cardiovascular diseases when compared to people who don't typically consume dairy. The suggestion was that perhaps certain types of sat fat are worse than others.

Obviously it's a very complicated picture and it wouldn't surprise me at all if even a moderate dairy consumption has some strong benefits and strong draw backs, because that's often how things work. I guess if you have an increased risk of a disease that is proved to be adversely affected by dairy then you have no choice but to avoid it just in case.

Thanks ladies, there's lots to think about here!

*can I just clarify that I am not contesting that milk contains sat fats! Poor grammar in my last post there...

thank you for the link to the recipe twilight i have bookmarked it for future ref

i had no idea about the milk/breast cancer link though, dont think i could make the lifestyle choice but it certainly gives a lot to think about..

If I understand rightly, there are at least four chemicals in dairy that are known or strongly suspected to be linked to breast cancer, two of which (calcium and vitamin d) decrease the risk and two of which (saturated fat and some hormone whose name I forget) increase it. I guess that means that it's perfectly possibly that dairy might be good against breast cancer in some circumstances and bad for it in others - eg (this is pure speculation) good for prevention but bad once you ahve cancer...

Makes most sense to me then to get your calcium and vitamin D from alternative sources, and avoid the saturated fats and hormones in dairy.

Calcium: Rich sources - dark green leafy vegetables such as broccoli, kale, watercress and cabbage; pulses (tofu, beans); dried fruits; tahini (sesame seed butter used to make houmous) and nuts and seeds (particularly almonds, Brazil nuts and sesame seeds); swede. Many soya milks and tofu are fortified with calcium.
Excessive amounts of animal protein (from meat, dairy, fish and eggs) in the diet can actually LEACH calcium from the bones, weakening the skeleton and leading to osteoporosis. Dairy milk also contains saturated fat. Therefore it is much healthier to obtain calcium from plant sources.
Vitamin D: Rich Sources - sunlight on skin. Fortified cereals and soya milk, animal-free margarine.

A good book to read re animal products and health is T.Colin Campbell's The China Study

It's by a doctor who was raised on a dairy farm.

More info here:
The China Study

His findings, in a nutshell: "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease ... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease."

OP, I am vegan, I think I'd rather not know about the houmous. Makes me more anxious about eating at someone else's house though. No need for dairy in houmous - why bother?

This is like me-my vegetarian SIL and my homemade Turkish Delight with gelatin that she LOVED.
I would keep stum and let it be your guilty secret

As she is not strictly vegan and eats eggs I would tell her and not insult her by keeping her in the dark. It was a genuine mistake and otherwise it will drive her crazy as to why it tasted so good! You may be able to make it next time with a dairy free type yoghurt for her? I think you should be honest and say sorry it was a genuine mistake

"No need for dairy in houmous - why bother?"

Well, I bother because I like it better this way and I'm not vegan.

To go off on a tangent- can I say thank you for the non- tahini recipe. I am allergic to sesame, but love hummus (which I ate a few times when I thought I had grown out of my allergy, and have been craving ever since I started reacting to it again.

So if I ever come to your house for dinner, please make sure your pots are clearly labeled. .

I would second not telling her.