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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Definition of success

28 replies

AliGrylls · 16/02/2011 13:23

AIBU for thinking our society is becoming obsessed with defining success in terms of career / how much money one has.

I ask this question because almost everyone I know says things like "oh x is really successful - they have a really good job". Also on the thread about likeability some people have only correlated success with having money.

Is being successful in terms relationships / intellectual achievements / socially not valid anymore?.

Discuss (and possibly await flames).

OP posts:
GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 13:47

Yes, AliGrylls. you can be a failure if you have loads of money.

If you have cheated and lied/let down those close to you,it can be regarded as failure.

You ar eright to think this may be a minority view/ cheers "Gabby"

Chil1234 · 16/02/2011 14:01

YABU... it's not a modern obsession at all. :) Wealth & possessions have been a benchmark for status & success for a long, long time. The Romans were fond of sporting very ostentatious jewellery. The Victorian middle-classes liked to keep up with the Jones's and have the latest of everything in glass cabinets where it could be admired. We've added a modern celebrity twist, so 'success' also means marrying a footballer or having the right moniker on your handbag.

There are a few exceptions for people like Mother Theresa, Stephen Hawking or Nelson Mandela who have achieved success in their field for other reasons. Would be nice if it were more widespread and people were less shallow about who they admired and why, but it isn't... and probably never has been.

GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 14:08

There is a move among USA billionaires to get together and give away their excessive fortunes.

Some rich geezer said "Anyone who dies rich is a failure."

I can just about imagine Sugar.Cowell, and Brucie etc doing something similar..but not just yet in respect of the first two.

GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 14:14

Ali I did not notice the bit about"await flames"....you have a dim view of us. (Justified up to a point) But if you look a little deeper many mumsnetters do not run with the crowd.

mayorquimby · 16/02/2011 14:29

It's always been that way. Nowt to do with modern society. It's because it is the most instantly measurable and definable quality about someone. He's in x position with Y company gives a good idea of how they're doing in life.
People closer to individuals will rate them based on their relationships and personality but a casual acquaintance will have little knowledge of such facets or be able to quantify them (married with kids doesn't mean it's a successful marraige which is going to last) so it's an easier barometer to look at career/wealth as starting point.

GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 14:40

There is something in all that,mayor. But only a tiny minority will ever be super rich;and income groups of a fether seem to flock together. So this is a philosophical debate for which I thank the poster who raised it.

I dont see Beckham for example as a role model. I just see him as someone who practised hard and became a good footballer.

Jonut · 16/02/2011 14:57

Totally agree, have had a lot of family members imply that in order to be successful I would have had to go to Uni and landed my dream job. I work in a crappy call centre but it pays the bills and fits around DC's school hours. To me success is being happy, I have an amazing partner and three beautiful DD's. This makes me happier than any Degree possbily could. ( Even though I have every intention of re-taking some GCSE's and doing a Uni course when DD3 is in full time school)

NinkyNonker · 16/02/2011 15:01

I agree op. I feel more successful now than I did before giving up my highly paid career.

christmaswishes · 16/02/2011 15:08

Hi ninky but can you say that viewpoint because you have already been successful. If you had never been successful you might not feel as content as you do
now?

christmaswishes · 16/02/2011 15:08

Hi ninky but can you say that viewpoint because you have already been successful. If you had never been successful you might not feel as content as you do
now?

Xenia · 16/02/2011 15:15

Perhaps people should go to church more or do the secular equivalent and then they would know that success is much more than mere money.

It is however how we and most other societies do define things and indeed it's why man not Neanderthals prevailed - we triumphed, the fittest survived and we are all here today because some of our ancestors kicked others of our ancestors out of the way.

For me success is in this order (a) being happy and having good mental health (b) being healthy (although a and b pretty much go together - hard to feel happy if you feel ill) (c) having good relationships with those I love (d) having a balance of things in my life from family, children, hobbies, activities and work (e) money/work/power/success in those terms. (e) is fun but I wouldn't just want (e). I also think for some of us (e) also helps some of the other things - you die young choking on your fried mars bars in some bits of Scotland wehreas money ensures you l ive 20 years longer in Kensington and can buy in domestic help with chores so you can have fun with your children and pursue a great career.

whatkatydidathome · 16/02/2011 15:25

Have you looked up success in the OED? It either means to achieve the desired outcome (ie is a sort of transitive noun - you need an aim in order to have met it) or it is defined in terms of being prosperous. Wrt the first definition then arguably our "purpose" is purely to procreate so anyone with children is (biologically) a success. Wrt the second then obviously it means in terms of money and carreer because that's what successful "means" :).

So I think that really you mean that it is sad that being successful is viewed as so important nowadays as opposed to being happy or kind (say) and I'd agree with you there (am always amazed at how many of the rich and famous get depressed and end up committing suicide/becoming drug dependant etc etc) so being successful does not seem to equate with being happy. I read somewhere that £50K was the "happy" income in the UK - apparently up to £50K in general more money = happier but after £50K it makes no differnece.

GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 15:27

"we triumphed the fittest survived"

yes, Xenia, I understand that Darwinism.

But does survival of the fittest reign now we are more civilised?.

I assume all classes are living longer;
with the upper class living longest.

We need to find the "missing link" He may live 4 doors down from me, xenia.

cheers "gabby"

BettyCash · 16/02/2011 15:31

I missed you Gabby

GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 15:34

I saw the "50k" quote did they mean for an individual or couple.?

American actor with a wig had a funny quote.

"I have been miserable and rich; and miserable and poor. I prefer rich"

I assume us men have a "what we have we hold" streak. And money is a poptent form of power.

One lottery winner did give the lot away. But I cant remember his name. "Gabby"

GabbyLoggon · 16/02/2011 15:41

You "missed me" BettyCash. well thats nice. I have done so much serious stuff on NHS . Its time for light relief.

Tony Livesey joke (5-live bloke)

"In Burnley we call SHAMELESS, Little House on The Prairie."

Apparently Abbott from Burnley wrote Shameless.

xstitch · 16/02/2011 15:44

For me success would be having enough money for the basics without panicking that dd may need a new pair of shoes. Whilst being able to spend time with my loved ones, have a job I enjoy. Basically being happy would be successful for me.

nickelbabe · 16/02/2011 15:48

see, I judge success as being happy and fulfilled.
and i don't think it's a static concept, either.

I can be successful but still have desires and further long-term plans.

success is defined by what we want from life.

my sister is successful, because she has a family (husband and children) that she loves and that love her. she has never had a job (teen mum)
my othersister is successful because she has managed to do whatever she wants all her life - she can save for holidays, and she has 2 children, now, and a husband. he's never had a well-paid job, but she's never wanted one.

i'm not yet successful because i don't know whether my business will survive (it's plodding along and getting better, but it's not yet successful).
i have managed to bag myself the most wonderful husbamd, though, so maybe my success is something i assumed i would never have....

Oobis · 16/02/2011 15:51

Success is looking at your life and smiling.

This does not mean there is no way of improving your life and that the addition of extra cash would not make things easier or nicer. You can be successful on any income.

daimbardiva · 16/02/2011 16:19

This kind of attitude has always bothered me. I remember meeting an old family friend, shortly after I'd finished my PhD and had just started work on pretty much my dream job (as a research assistant on a project I was fascinated by). I told him what I was doing, and he said "Oh well, there's something to be said for being happy rather than successful I suppose" which shocked me, because I was feeling pretty darn successful at that point.

Original poster
AliGrylls · 16/02/2011 18:34

I say await flames because I constantly get flamed on here. I imagined all these high powered people coming on and disagreeing.

OP posts:
NinkyNonker · 16/02/2011 18:46

That's true ChristmasWishes, I may feel more content because I had a choice and exercised it, and know I could probably reverse it if I wanted. To not have/have had the choice would be very frustrating.

Acanthus · 16/02/2011 18:50

Xenia you attach so much importance to academic results and having a well paid job that I think you're kidding yourself in your post. Either that or kidding us.

bigTillyMint · 16/02/2011 18:56

One of my BF's reckons she's the most successful of our school year as she holds a high academic post and has her name engraved on the acheivement board in the school Hmm

I think that being happy with your life - having a job you love and a happy, loving home life, etc is success.

Actually she has both kinds of successSmile

Xenia · 16/02/2011 19:41

Acanthus, no not kidding at all. I have huge fun being relatively successful but also having a lot of babies and also most of all being healthy, happy, fit etc. I think most successful people want all that. It's no fun being successful if you're ill or there is no one whom you love.