would you volunteer to keep your library open?

[carriedababi]

?

My mother works in a library and she worries that if they take on volunteers (which they are doing) then the future will probably be that if a member of staff leave they will not be replaced with a paid member of staff but a volunteer. In effect all librarians could be whittled down until eventually replaced with volunteers. What kind of training will these volunteers get? I understand it is crucial to communities to keep libraries open but it is almost an insult to librarians that people can do their job unpaid and willingly, i feel it undermines the job. Also in this state of recession and job cuts etc who are these people that can afford to give their time unpaid? I wouldn't want my job to be taken over by a volunteer, what does the future hold for this country where all jobs could be willingly done by a volunteer????[CONFUSED]

I am a library assistant. Iv75, most of the people who serve you in a public library are library assistants. Very few of the are properly qualified librarians. If they were Councils would have to pay them a helluva lot more than the peanuts they get. However, just because they don't have libarianship qualification does not mean they can't do their job well. It is about commitment and passion for the job. And a lot of library assistants are educated to a high level.

re maddy68

So, you are a qualified librarian, have benefitted from your training but you are happy to see a situation arise where no-one else can.

Does this not strike you as unfair. Also, I note that you are qualified. Very few public library workers are. Have you ever worked in a public library?

Also, you have not used your training for 15 years. So that would make you a passionate advocate for libraries, would it?

re gramercy:

"I would have thought that qualified librarians might shed a tear at the way libraries have become less and less about books."

But there are very few qualified librarians working in public libraries, usually only the head of the service. My head of service thinks there is no role for qualified librarians in public libraries. Presumably she doesn't want her job...

Part of the reason libraries have become less about books is because of the deprofessionalisation of the public library service over many years.

Also, the fact that library visits have gone up over the last 10 years but book loans have gone down shows that many people find using the computers in libraries very useful.

re slowshow

"Well I'm a librarian and I'm a big fan of self issue machines! It leaves staff more time to give real help to users, rather than be stuck behind a desk issuing books."

That is excellent but it will only work if the installation of self service machines is not used as the pretext for reductions in staffing, as has happened in many public library services, including the one I work for.

DH just told me they are getting rid of the mobile library in our area as they think the main users i.e. the elderly should just log onto the internet and order books direct!

I would drive a library bus if i had to. Poor elderly. No meals on wheels, and no Fredrick Forsythe or Catherine Cookson. Cameron you are a shit.

re sausagerollmodel

"So I guess the librarians that still have jobs (at the moment!) are doing work that couldn't be done by amateurs without any training or qualifications"

No, most public library workers are not qualified librarians. However, these library services do have there own induction and training procedures which are ongoing as technology and best practice ideas develop.

However, to get the best public library assistants requires that training, a passion for the role and a willingness to learn. Volunteers could do some of the work, but would they want to turn up every day, 365 days a year? Would they want to deal with the difficult and sometimes aggressive customers you get in local libraries? Would they have the commitment to perform the tasks that are repetitive and less interesting? Will they have the expertise to run the library without the support of delivery personel, central book ordering services, cleaning services, building repair services etc etc etc?

We'll be asked to be teacher volunteers next. It's madness!

I see Custy wants to make all of them into an 80's throwback of a friends episode & franchise them, must be a Joey thing going on, showing her age ;)

re frecklyspeckly

One of the joys of the public library is it gives you the ability to browse. It can be quite difficult to find a book you want to read just from looking at its cover. Will the elderly people you speak of be able to do this on their internet, assuming they can afford a computer, internet connection and know how to use a computer?

That idea sucks.

re grendelsmum

"By cutting library services, in no way are we talking about making the types of decisions necessary in the third world."

As far as I know, Britain is not a third world country, although the decision being made to cut library services are certainly a step in the direction.

This is a rich country and we can afford this. Look at the profits the banks are making!

re grendels mum

"I had a chat to one of the local councillors about this, and he was very honest about the amount of pressure they're under, and the need to make a small amount of money go a very long way. Every pound that's spent on our libraries is money that isn't being spent on other services, most of them of equal or greater importance to the community."

Yep, local councillors up and the down the land have to make very difficult choices. But who put them in that situation, and why?

NO!

re boffinmum

"If so, I can see a lot of them turning up to these enforced volunteer placements and just sitting there with their arms folded like pissed off adolescents. I know I would. God forbid anyone makes me dust library books all day for £40 a week. We'd all be better off in prison sewing mailbags."

Actually, you don't make that much more when you are paid to do the job. I know. I do it. We are not talking higly paid council chief officer salaries, no sir.

re MrsFlitersnoop

"Libraries are incredibly important - everyone should have the opportunity to access information."

Couldn't agree more. You don't think the present government is trying prevent that access, do you? Just in case, like, people actually start to work out what they are really about?

"Yes I would volunteer." Disagree. You would be happy to take my job from me and do it for nothing. How would you feel if you were in that situation?

re timewasting

"One of the things I've not liked about libraries for a while is the fact that the library assistants aren't qualified. I know they have not been hiring qualified staff in order to save money."

Correct. I speak from personal experience, and this has been happening for years.

"I've had library assistants look at me blankly when asking where a particular, not obscure section would be. We had to learn the dewey decimal system to be a school library assistant in Year 8.
I was a little aghast at how one pronounced Jung the other day.
Am I expecting too much?"

Depends. You get training and have to pick up the rest as you go along. Consider, how long had that person been in the job, was that person passionate about the job? I work as a library assistant and you are not expected to have memorised the Dewey system. But you are expected to know how it works and how to find the relevant book run.

"I've noticed this over the years, I wonder how many others have noticed it, and lost a little faith, visited a little less often.

Then visitor numbers go down etc."

Yep, library services have been starved of money for years and years. The amazing thing is a lot of it works wonderfully well on a shoestring. And now we are told we can't even afford the shoestring.

re curlyhairedassassin

"there is also a certain mindset that is necessary to work in a library. I have seen many temp agency staff come into a library who have no concept of the idea of numerical order or just the idea of putting things into appropriate categories or any sort of order. This despite explaning the Dewey Decimal system very slowly and carefully to them."

Correct. I speak from personal experience. Indeed, most public library services do not employed qualified libarians so they can pay the library assistants a pittance. The problem with this is unsuitable candidates sometimes make it through the job application process as the job and person specification is set a such a low level. Which does not help to create a good customer experience...

re curlyhairedassassin

bumping this post as it is excellent:

hardhat, the frontline staff on the desk will be the library assistants (which ARE admin roles, I totally agree, involving doing the tasks you describe). The librarian role will be the more senior position: their tasks are many and include:

General management of the actual library building and its day-to-day upkeep - arranging contractors/building works/repairs and improvements etc.

Management of the staff including all recruitment and interviews, training, and other personnel issues.

Management of the frontline service on the issue desk including making sure staffing levels are appropriate; managing rotas etc. Dealing with customer complaints.

Management of the resources budget and all the stock ordering. So financial and planning skills come into play. You have to know your resources inside out, keep up to date with new trends and technology. You have to know your users really well to know what they want on their shelves so will be involved in maybe planning customer surveys etc

Management of the IT facilities (again including planning and budgeting, and day-to-day operations), so your IT skills have to be excellent. This includes the public use internet machines as well as the computerised library management system, which you will have to know inside out.

Cataloguing all the books and DVDs etc onto the library management system. so you have to know the Dewey Decimal system inside out and be able to categorise books in a set, standard way, from many different subject areas outside your own specialist knowledge. So your general knowledge has to be excellent too. As far as getting new books ready to go on the shelf the library assistants generally only do basic stuff like the labelling/backing/security tagging of the new books, and then the actual shelving. The end user doens't see everything that has gone into it PRIOR to that point.

Attending local area planning meetings etc.

There are a LOT of skills involved, believe me. A librarian is very different to a library assistant, even though people just tend to call everyone who works in a library a "librarian".

re mummy2bookie

"Yes I would definitely volunteer."

Really? So somebody else could be sacked? How many hours a week are you willing to do? Will that include unsocial hours? Would you be prepared to manage other volunteers? Would you be prepared to deal with the violent and aggressive customers? Would you be prepared to pay for the new books as well? etc etc

It is not a realistic option to use volunteers to run a library with good quality stock, and reliable, accessible opening hours.

I humbly suggest you should reconsider. Part of the reason this government feels it can get away with this cultural vandalism is the willingness of some people to work for nothing. Sorry, but as some one who works for a public library I do not have that luxury.

When the volunteers take over and it all goes wrong, as it will in most cases, who do you think will get the blame for this. The volunteers or the government. Don't be a mug.

re library mum

"whilst I don't really want to part of Cameron's big society, libraries are such as vital part of the community and our children's education, that I would want to do something"

If libraries are that important to you (and they are to me) why are saying you are prepared to take an action that would allow the government to do this. If you want to do something, 'volunteer' your service by lobbying your local councillors and MPs, form a local pressure group or get involved in one. Show the government you are not going to accept this. Today is has been annouced that the government is abandoning its plans to privatise the forests. This shows what can be achieved when the right public pressure is brought to bear on an unpopular policy.

Please fight for what is right, rather than settling for what is wrong.

re Grendelsmum

"I'm sure I read somewhere that for many libraries, the books could reach the borrowers much more cheaply on a LoveFilm model, by being sent and returned by post."

This is a rubbish idea. I can't comment on the economics of it, but consider this.

Part of the attraction of a library is its range of stock and the way it invites borrowers to browse stock and discover books they never knew they would enjoy, thus broadening the intellectual horizons of its borrowers, which has to be a important reason for the existence of libraries.

How exactly, is the 'LoveFilm' model going to replicate this experience? It can't, in my opinion.

re donkederby

"I would have thought that libraries are targetted because they are not essential services."

OK, tell the person who has no internet access because they can't afford it that it is not essential. Even though more and more local and national services and being placed online. Including looking for work. Who's to say you won't find yourself in that situation in the future?

Or, tell that to the person who has three kids but can't afford to buy the 60 books a week she currently borrows for them.

How about explaining that to the kid who has a homework project to do, whose parents can not afford to buy a home library, and whose school have decided they can no longer afford a school library.

I could go on...

Define essential. What is essential to you is not essential to me. Instead, lets think about what kind of society we want to create?

re Ohthehugemanatee

"It's also about councils choosing highly visible services to cut so as to embarrass the government, while more often than not keeping their 200k a year CEO salaries and gold aged pensions."

Not convinced. If the councils really wanted to embarrass the government why not stop collecting the bins, or close the old people's homes. Now that really would upset the locals and be highly embarassing for the government.

I'm afraid it's because they think they can get away with this but not with cutting other areas. It about a society that has become so materialistic that is knows the prioe of everything and the value of nothing.

If the all the CEO's were made redundant it would make little difference, as the money saved from doing this would be a drop in the ocean compared to the amounts councils are being asked to cut.

The problem does not lie with local councils,
although Dave Cameron is trying hard to con-vince us it does. The problem lies with the mmassive cuts the national government has embarked on. That is where the blame lies, and that is where your ire should be directed.

Ok, I'll stop now, but I hope, as one who works at the shelf face, that I have shed soome light on the subject. Bye.

Just passing a to CapUnderpants
Well said, with regards from a fellow library assistant

Capunderpants :)