to be angry that Ann Summers has a real woman in underwear in their shop window?

[1eve]

Walking down Market Street in Manchester on Friday I saw a couple of guys taking pictures with their phones at a shop window. When I turned to see what they were photographing I found that there was a woman posing in sexy underwear in a window display. The shop was Ann Summers, although it had changed its name to ManSummers as a publicity thing to get guys to come into the shop and buy valentine gifts for their girlfriends. Now women buying vibrators and dressing up if they want is not a problem for me, although Ann Summers has always leant towards getting women to please men in my view, but sexual desire is never pc anyway so its a tricky subject. But this felt like it crossed a line.
If I'd been walking through town (it was the middle of the day) with my 2 boys, age 4 and 6, that is not what I want them to see. That a woman's role is to be placed on show like a piece of meat while men leer at her? (a group of guys were standing in front of the window laughing and staring, making comments). Is it just me or is this bloody degrading?

"You just have to go out on a Saturday night to any town to see how women and young girls are sexualising themselves through what they're wearing to appeal to men."

True, but most children are in bed by then, whereas they may well be out with their families shopping in the daytime when the Ann Summers display is going on.

and if groups of men stood around leering and pointing and taking photos on the beach it would make it not a very nice environment and not one that you would be happy taking your children to.

plenty of women wear very little to go out in on a night and there can be a very leery atmosphere in clubs, but the women who go there have chosen to and it is over 18 - it would not be an appropriate place to take children.

the model might have chosen to take the job but I have not chosen to have this happening in my high street. Why is the freedom to make money at any cost more important than the freedom to take your children out shopping on a Saturday knowing there won't be crowds of men leching publicly in the high street?

"militant feminism" imagine!

Good post seth

I don't really care about the model. She's an adult and she made her choice. I care about girls who think this is a great career to aspire to, and boys who think this is the norm

I am a feminist and as more and more things like this happen I am becoming increasingly militant.

which 'everybody' is that Altinkum? everybody in your imagination? or a few people on the thread?

theres nothing degrading about a woman in her underwear.

there is alot degrading about parading her like some caged animal in the window of a shop (like some sort of product) and having men gawp at her.

I wouldnt want my children seeing a woman being treated that way either

Isn't feminism a good thing? Squeakytoy, why do you find our presence "amusing" on a thread about the objectification of women?

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat or a prostitute"

~Rebecca West, "Mr Chesterton in Hysterics: A Study in Prejudice," The Clarion, 14 Nov 1913, reprinted in The Young Rebecca, 1982

If I choose to go out and stand in a bar in a low cut mini dress then I will be looked at by all men not just the ones I fancy. Same in all situations, not much you can do about that.

The women in the shop windows are looked at by men and women, my friend is gay and I know she would find the woman in the window very sexually arousing. She would be standing there looking at her thinking the same thoughts as the men.

I didn't see anyone ramming their opinion down your throat altinkum.

The actions of AS employing a model to pose in sexy lingerie in the window of their high street stores is very much contributing to this idea that it's ok for women to be judged on their sexual desirability. This is a status quo which affects all women, not least of all in the workplace.

Whether the model is a consenting adult or not is entirely irrelevant. Can you see that?

I did complain, actually. I went into the shop and I put a post on the ann summers website, there is a section about this campaign.
I am not some prude who doesn't like sex or who disapproves of people dressing up if they want to. and my kids have seen me in my underwear or naked plenty of times. I don't want my kids growing up thinking men are heroes, clever, interesting etc, and women are all about how they look. And boys model the behaviour of grown men and look up to them. so if my sons see men photographing this woman, staring at her boobs, leaning against the wall with their mates, pointing and talking about her my boys will think this is a normal way for men and women to relate.

re being paid. WHAT??? because she's paid its ok? I knew a woman who used to self-harm, if someone paid her to do that in a window would that be ok? or would it be classed as contributing to a sad problem which already exists?

Is anyone aware of the massive rise in women and girls with eating disorders? does no-one think seeing women with a very particular type of figure sexualised like this could have anything to do with stuff like this?

I think it is extremely important that we try to teach our sons that women are not objects that if a woman chooses to wear a short skirt / bikini etc that does not mean they are open to cat cals and degrading comments , these images will always be around and it is getting worse .I know my dh would look but I also know he would never photograph or say anything demeaning because he has been brought up to respect women and it is certainly the way we both want our ds to do too .if the media are not going to be responsible then it is up to us to instill it in our children now .
As for BEng militant feminists we need feminists women are still jot being treat as equals and in this day and age it is shocking . Look at films women can be doctors pshycologists CEO s aslong as they are sexy doctors and cling to the big heroic man at the end .

1eve, yes you're right but there are images of women with figures like that everywhere. In real life there are women with figures like that who are not on the covers of lads mags.
What is your answer to it?

"no different from la senza or any model, be it, plastic or real"

If she's no different from a plastic model then why is there so much more male attention to the human model?

Also a plastic model does not move and has an expressionless and unsensual face/body.

Self-harming and modelling are clearly different things, although I would argue that there is a cross-over, if you count eating disorders as a form of self-harming. I was trying to say how ridiculous the statement: 'if she's getting paid for it it's ok' is.

if you claim that 'everybody' thinks something when in fact only a few people have expressed that view, it is reasonable to point out that this is a complete projection on your part. If you find that rude and offensive that's your problem.

What Seth said.

"If the women want to be judges on their sexual desirability, then that's very much their choice".

Not sure if you're misunderstanding my argument? I'm not understanding yours, sorry. I wasn't talking about the sexes being attracted to each other. Nor was I talking about individuals choosing to wear sexy underwear. You've lost me completely - we seem to be talking at cross purposes.