Tricky situation.

[Iliad]

I hope this is a good place to put this as I need to get something off my chest and maybe some unbiased opinions.

I have a situation that is really driving me nutts at the minute and I have no one neutral to talk about it with. So I have no idea if I am being unreasonable or not.

Erm... where to start?

Ok, I have been with my wife for 10 years now and married for 3. 6 years ago she became very ill and now has a form of MS that has made her bed bound, after which I became her main carer. We have a 3 year old son together who I have basically raised on my own since birth, with a little help from Grandma (my mother) some weekends, as my wife is unable to do anything. Once he was born my priorities shifted from being my wife's main carer to raising my son. So I'm basically a single father and a carer for my wife.

The problem being my wife now wants to move back down to Colchester to be with her mother, we live in Stockton on Tees.

I have a huge problem with this and really do not want to go down there because I will loose all of the support I have for my son at the minute and will end up being trapped in a situation I do not want to be in.

She says it will be fine as her mother will help look after our son. The fear I have here is that our son is her only grandchild and in 3 years she has come to see him once, twice if you count her coming up for our wedding. She hasn't really shown any interest in being a grandma in my opinion, more that she just likes the idea of being one.

So I fear I am going to be left with no support for my son and myself.

I feel that the best place for him is here where we are with the two people who have raised him so far, myself and my mother. He has also just started nursery which gives me a little break on a morning to pop into town for some shopping or just have a sit down for five minutes.

Another factor to add into the equasion is my wife was always told she could never have children so our son really came out of the blue.

In the last year or so my wife has become very hard to live with due to her condition and probably the medication she is on. I feel with a lot of the things she says she isn't living in the real world so it is exceptionally difficult to have a rational conversation with her.

One day during one of our sort of conversations the idea of seperation poped up, fine, if that's what she'd like then fair enough as I'm having a hard time of it at the moment. The problem being she either wants to take our son with her or joint custody. Taking him with her dosn't seem like a sensible option to me as she can't look after him, she sees him maybe 5 minutes in a day, I don't like him going in the bedroom because she smokes in there and she has equipment in there which isn't child friendly, mainly for a kiss goodnight. Or he would be brought up by her mother who afformentioned dosn't seem that interested. I don't think joint custody would be feasable because of the distance.

The only thing I can think of that would be best for our son would be for me to have full custody. I'd have no problem with them coming to see him whenever they like or taking him down there to see him on a reasonable regular basis.

I don't want her to have to go away from her child but that decission is up to her. I've said to her you have a choice of either staying here with your son or moving down to be with your mother as I have no interest in going down there and I'm just trying to think of what is best for our son.

For me personally the best thing would be if she moved.

All I want is what is best for my son and I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

It's a really difficult situation with no real easy answer and I really do not know what to do. I love my son so much and just want whats best.

So if anyone has any advice or ideas I would be really greatful.

Sorry if none of this makes sense and it's a bit mishmashed, there is probably lots I have missed out so feel free to ask any questions and I can fill in any blanks.

Take it easy and have fun.

I genuinely believe your wife needs some counselling.

Iliad, I'm sure this isn't the most pressing concern for you but please please please don't allow her to smoke in bed. My friend's mother had MS and did this and caused a very serious fire. Yes, smoking in bed is stupid for everyone but it's doubly stupid if you have impaired motor movements due to MS and possibly impaired cognitive reactions due to depression.

Most solicitors will offer you a first half hour free, which provided you get everything down clearly and logically first should be useful. Additionally, you may be entitled to legal aid (albeit not for very long).

I don't wish this to sound insensitive but you and her medical team should try the hardest you can not to "let" her withdraw from family life. My father was ill for a long time when we were little - and would have done likewise if he'd had his own way, but my mother, the carer, etc were very insistent - you WILL read with the children, you will sit in the living room. Because if depression is brought on by the condition withdrawal will only exacerbate that.

sorry your situation is so fraught OP.

the courts are not an aggressive option, but a sensible option ie to get it all tied down legally - imo this is essential for your son's stability. family courts these days are trained to be very accommodating and do all they can to minimise conflict, to protect the childrens' interests first and foremost but, to the best of their ability, to facilitate agreement between you and your wife as amicably and straightforwardly as possible. I can understand your wife wanting to be with her mother - from what you say, there is no love between you which will be hard for her when she is so ill, depressed, and you are her only carer - she would naturally want to be with someone who loves her.

I would approach a solicitor to talk through your options - if £ is an issue, the first half hour is free to see if you have a case (or at least it used to be) - it's surprising how much you can establish in half an hour - they move at a cracking pace. yes it can be expensive in the long run (less so if you do the donkey work yourself) but tbh it is better than the terrible wrangles that can ensue if things aren't legally nailed down. They will probably suggest a legally trained mediator (usually a solicitor trained in mediation) to get the issues sorted out between you quickly, instead of letters to and fro, which are expensive, agonisingly slow and probably ridiculous as you live in the same house.

Though we only have your side of the story, I appreciate this is a very difficult situation to face for you all and I hope the resolution is as amicable as possible and suits everyone.

Iheartkittensandwine i totally agree and it does sound like his wife has quite severe depression (understandably). It sounds to me like she needs to feel like a mum in any small way she can. Op doesn't seem able to cope with helping her with this though ( not critisizing OP I know how hard it is when someone is like this).

excellent post kittens - some very good points particularly re withdrawal from family life

I think she does aswell ThePosieParker and have done for a long time, even before our son, but getting her to get it is another matter all together.

IHeartKittensAndWine believe me I have tried to get her to stop smoking in bed, I'm also worried she is going to start a fire, I have explained my concerns and that she has a duty of care for her son but this dosn't work, I've had a smoke alarm fitted by the fire brigade in the bedroom and have raised my concerns with her social worker. I even went so far for awhile to hide her cigaretts so she had to ask me to take her to the bathroom or outside for one but this just became a nightmare for me as every 30 mins she wanted one and when I'm trying to do things with our son or things fo myself it just became rediculous.

One of the worst things about the situation which I failed to mention before is when she is on the phone to her mother, which is once a week, and I have overheard what she is talking about as I have been passing the bedroom door, she has blatently been telling lies about one thing or another mainly to do with me. I have confronted her about this the answer to which is "I'm not lying, it's the truth as I see it" Whenever I have over heard it's always been something negative towards me and seems lie she is painting me as a bad guy or some kind of monster to her mother, which worries me.

Iliad....Can you talk to an MS charity to see what help is available for you?

What a nightmare situation.

I feel so sad for you both. It must be awful for your wife to have a child that she can only spend 5 mins with a day. I find it strange that she would rather stay in her room then come into the front room and at least watch her child play. Is that because of the depression do you think?

Reality - that's what i was trying to get at in a wussy way.
I do feel sorry for ops wife, i just cant see how anything can be done now it has got to the point of threats to leave etc.

Agree with all other advice, very soory for you and your wife. Really think she mustnt withdraw - wheel her into the lounge, turn off the tv and let her see and experience family life. Can her mother come to you sometimes? Also you say its not really practical for her to travel, but youre both not enjoying the alternative either, so I think its wirth putting effort into that.
Could you talk to her mum independently of her about her proposed move etc. Sorry got to go...

You sound like a fantastic dad who has put up with so much. Stay in the North East where you have your support network and where son will eventually go to school. Good luck

Iliad, apologies again if this comes across as insensitive, but do you think you might be being too leniant with her because of her physical and mental illnesses? By which I mean accepting standards of behaviour which are not acceptable or excusable due at all to her illness, which are unfair on you and your son and corosive to your family life?

For example time with her son - it is perfectly understandable that she doesn't spend as much time with him or do as much as if she didn't have MS or (presumed) depression. But five minutes a day is not acceptable. End of. Half an hour a day - maybe in two blocks of 15 minutes - is a good place to start. Reward her good behaviour through compliments etc, "punish" her bad behaviour by ignoring it. Calling out for a fag every half hour - well can you wheel her to a spot near an open window or a back door or something? If she's willing to sit there with the packet next to her that's fine, if she's not she doesn't get. End of.

Rewarding good behaviour turns it into a habit, and a habit which is good for the family can become a pleasure. I realise this may sound like I'm suggesting you should treat her as if she's a toddler, but the thing is we all have toddler traits, which tend to come to the fore when we're feeling sorry for ourselves and make those feelings much worse.

Regarding what she says on the phone to her mother, could you set aside twenty minutes once a week (maybe when your son is elsewhere) when you talk through what's bothering her? Not as an argument/attack session on you but just as an opportunity for her to vent her quite understandable frustration. Condition being that you both have to say ONE nice thing about each other at the start and the end, it all has to be true, not result in name calling, raised voices etc.

I also want to stress the point about her not withdrawing. Can your son draw or read while she watches her programmes in the living room (provided they are age appropriate)?

Iliad I don't think it's uncommon to resent a partner with life limiting illness, but it's not healthy. Get some help.

"she has blatently been telling lies about one thing or another mainly to do with me. I have confronted her about this the answer to which is "I'm not lying, it's the truth as I see it" "

sounds like a normal marriage to me tbh! albeit a marriage in conflict. We all need to whinge to our friends/family sometimes if we are going through a crisis. what the other has to say about the marriage may seem alien to us - that's the nature of conflict, surely?

agree that she is entirely at your mercy so to speak. You may come across as a reasonable, great guy - you may be, you may not be, no way of knowing for sure OP sorry. too many gaps in the story really - gaps that can only be covered between you ie the nature of the conflict between you (eg I don't know anything about MS meds and have no way of knowing if they 'change' a person's personality etc(. You also didn't pick up the suggestion made by kitten, only picked up the point about the risk of fire - re that your wife be encouraged to be part of the family ie downstairs, in the main thoroughfare? I appreciate that getting downstairs could be an issue - does she have a social worker, is the house kitted out for her needs eg a stair lift etc?

I actually think being deprived of your mum is much much worse than being around passive smoke. I say that as someone who has studied the passive smoking literature extensively for work (and do see some minor risks for certain children, for sure). Of course, now she's essentially bed-bound, depressed and see her son for five minutes a day, she is smoking like a chimney. But like many people, and certainly our parents, many of us grew up in a fog of smoke, not ideal, but certainly not as unhealthy as having no contact with a loving parent IMO.

As for the equipment being safe, tough, supervise it then when he's in there.

I don't think you should move, but you cannot in all conscience say you are doing everything to facilitate the bond between mother and son (which is probably struggling due to her depression and ill-health). For goodness sake, make her bedroom the new living room, keep the window open after she's smoked, and at least facilitate that even if you don't personally want to be with her as a family unit.

You sound like a loving dad and great carer for him, so I'm not saying this to be nasty, but rather that a situation has grown up and is now perpetuating itself which is not healthy; the more isolated she is, the more she will want to go to her mother and essentially lose her son too (given how little she sees him now).

Yes you may indeed RealityIsKnockedUp do feel free.

Yes it's a pant's situation but it's the one we have and the one that is to be delt with.

I don't despise her or her illness, that's just what has happend, no one is to blame, it's just the way it is. It's not all of her care as I said she has carers come to do her meals, I just do the rest that I can, which clearly I'm having a problem coping with. I have no problem what so ever in looking after our child, I love doing it, it's something I never expected to be doing but wouldn't change it for anything. He is the light of my life as they say.

As for the bedroom as I said she smokes in there, this alone isn't a good enviroment for a young child, add to that, a hoist, a camode, etc. it's a fairly small bedroom.

I can totally understand that she wants to move back home with her family. It's not for me though and it wouldn't be good for our son either.

I've thought about it all alot, mulled it all over and as far as I can see know what is best for our son. I just really don't know what to do and just needed to sound things out with other people who arn't biased one way or the other. I appretiate I can only tell one side of the story but am trying to be as honest as possible.

The little time she sees him each day is her choice.

I do think we should go our seperate ways as at the minute I am feeling drained and trapped and would quite like to have an enjoyable life with my son and for myself while I'm still young enough. I just don't know what to do for the best mainly because of the distance involved which would make it difficult for access and what not.

Perhaps you could ask her for help in certain areas , meal planning for example. My mum used to plan all the meals eve though she couldn't go out to the shops. Also hobbies she needs loads not just watching tv. I clearly remember my dad coming home withnBAGS full of craft supplies for my mum ( who also suffered from depression) it included a large picture that my dad wanted made as a present for my nan so it had a purpose not just for passing the time.

I think it wiukd be really helpful for you and your wife to see someone to help draw a line between what is illness based and what is depression based .

Oh just seen your latest post. Igore my last post if yo have already decided to split.

I think you are right not to want to move. She is free to move, she can't make you move and she can't take her/your child because she can't look after him. So that's that.

Hi (i'm from Stockton on Tees too, tho live down South now, i'm also a full time carer but to my daughter who has a life limiting illness).

I haven't much more to add because it really seems you have exhausted every avenue in your pursuit to help your wife both get help and to help herself.

I had a partner once who suffered terrible depression, (i'm also trained in counselling and psychotherapy)and i know first hand that you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink. If someone doesn't really want helping or no longer has the mental capacity to realise they need help then theres really not much more you can do.

To continue to be a good father to your son sometimes you need to be a little selfish and think of your needs too and you deserve some happiness as well. I split with my ex (father of 4 of my children) because i had to stop supporting him in order to be able to care for my children and give them the life they deserved. I didn't love him anymore but equally i didn't want to hurt him by taking the children from him...which is ultimately what i did because i just couldn't go on being miserable. He moved back up north when we split and through his own choice doesn't see the children anymore.

In your position i would try and seek legal advice or talk to CAB and then go for cust of your son as it sounds totally justifiable as you have his best interests and welfare at heart. Although for him to obviously still have contact with his Mum would be good for him as you don't want him growing up thinking he wasn't allowed to have time with her. If she moves away like my ex did then i guess thats of her own doing if she chooses to put that distance between her and her son.

My only regret is that i didn't seperate with my ex sooner as both mine and my childrens lives were so much better immediately without the oppression of my ex's mental illness, as awful as that makes me sound. It was a battlefield to go through at the time of the split but so worth it.

I wish you all the best.

Iliad, have you considered counselling for yourself? Even if she won't.

Iliad - Wanted to add my voice to those saying you should not move down to her mother's. MS is a tragic disease, often taking your loved one and replacing them with a nasty character you barely recognise. It's not simply depression because she's ill and has a terminal illness, the disease changes her character permanently, generally in the worst way. You grieve long before she's gone.

You have done a marvelous job so far and I'm not surprised you feel washed out and happy to let her go if she chooses. I really want to encourage you to try to find some respite care in other ways so you feel able to continue with her in the home if she does not choose to go. And so you feel better able to trust your own judgment in the coming months.

What a dreadful situation, I feel for youbas you sound like a great dad. I am shocked at the 5 mins a day she spends interacting with her boy, surely the tv doesn't have to be on for these times?!