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Original poster

Headline "Why dont we teach children morality?"

41 replies

GabbyLoggon · 10/02/2011 14:30

Todays Daily Mail

I thought we did teach our children morality.

There may be differences of opinion on
what is moral.

also how much influence parents and teachers can have with particular age groups.

"Gabby"
OP posts:
Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 14:35

Look - it's the Daily Mail.

The world is going to end tomorrow because there are people out there don't conform to what the Daily Mail says is right.

They love making everyone feel small and submissive.

Of course there are different opinions of what is moral. The problem is that the DM recognises that but never respects it.

They are hate-mongerers.

Mmmm. Sorry. Feel better now.

Original poster
GabbyLoggon · 10/02/2011 14:46

Point taken..OOPS, but forget the DM and it is still an interesting subject.

Pleased you feel better. We should get things off our chests. "Gabby"

OP posts:
Booandpops · 10/02/2011 14:54

May start a bun fight here but I'd say some people don't have the morals that were about generations ago.

One partner to the next. Introducing uncle jonny to kids to quick. A new uncle every three months. I'm all for having fun and if your a free agent fine but I don't agree with bringing boyfriends home to kids until sure it's going somewhere.

Also I wish to keep my dd young and won't dress her in grown up clothing or let her watch sexualised pop channels.

Ready for flaming

Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 14:55

Yes - forgetting the DM.

I agree - we all have differing ideas about morality. Some will be influenced by religion, some by our parents, some (sadly) by the lives of slebs.

My dcs are teens and I think they are less influenced by our morality and more by their peers now.

My dcs are well-mannered and socially responsible (or as much as teens ever are) and I like to think this is because we've done a half decent job of raising them. They have also been hugely influenced by my parents and my stepfather all who have played a big part in their lives. Our friends are all fairly similar in our behaviours.

However, now they are older, I think the fact that their groups of friends are similarly morally-minded has reinforced their thinking and behaviour.

I don't, however, think that their teachers have particularly influenced them in this way.

LindyHemming · 10/02/2011 14:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pascoe28 · 10/02/2011 14:56

Booandpops - good point, although if one is married to the kids' father, the chances are such modern moral conundrums are less likely to arise...

LindyHemming · 10/02/2011 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pascoe28 · 10/02/2011 15:00

Parents teach children their morals - both actively, through disciplining them when transgress the 'house rules' and also passively through example - the way they talk to one another, behave when they think the children aren't watching etc.

Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 15:01

pascoe28 - DP and I have been together over 20 years. We are not married. Neither of us has ever had an affair or hit or stolen from the other.

Our children are raised in love and security.

My upbringing was very different. My parents were married but it was like a war zone. They now recognise the error of this, thankfully, but my childhood could have been very different.

IMHO marriage is not the basis of this discussion.

LeninGrad · 10/02/2011 15:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bloodymary · 10/02/2011 15:06

Booandpops has said it all.
You cannot really be expecting a flaming for that can you Boo?

Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 15:10

What about social morality?

Caring for others.

Looking out for neighbours.

Seeking solutions for all these bloody cutbacks to make sure the vulnerable are protected.

People campaigning to save libraries.

Volunteering for community projects.

Original poster
GabbyLoggon · 10/02/2011 15:15

yes, Oops, Pascoe and Lenin, there is a lot in what you say.

I have faught long and hard against being a "complete git." And encouraged others to fight the good fight.

Seriously

I am from an old style large working class
family..(mainly boys)

So we got a lot of freedom. And mum and dad were not the lecturing type parents.
(But mum was a saint and kept the family together)

Our large family is down to 3 brothers now.
I am the yougest survivor.

SEX? Parents never mentioned it; but dad did a lot of bedroom activity.

We kept rabbits , I worked it out.
cheers "Gabby"

OP posts:
LeninGrad · 10/02/2011 15:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 15:29

I agree, LeninGrad.

We are all incredibly selfish and there is little in society to encourage us to be any other way.

tethersend · 10/02/2011 15:31

"May start a bun fight here but I'd say some people don't have the morals that were about generations ago. "

...but this could also include racism, disbelieving/covering up child abuse, domestic violence etc...

Morality is subjective, and subject to change from generation to generation.

I think it's underestimating children to think that they cannot work out their own set of moral values based on what they see around them. I don't think they need to be taught didactically IYSWIM.

Although the NC has a stab at it through Citizenship/PSHE.

pascoe28 · 10/02/2011 15:32

Ooopsadaisy/LeninGrad etc - I believe people will do more for one another of their own volition once the State gets out of the way.

You can't legislate people into being good or 'nice'.

pascoe28 · 10/02/2011 15:33

tethersend - the State has no role in promoting morality.

Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 15:36

Pascoe28 - I agree that you cannot legislate people into being good or nice.

But you can lead by example.

That's what I don't see in this society.

I have told my dcs that stealing is wrong because it hurts others. I set the example by not doing it.

I struggle to see larger scale examples of morality in society as a whole. Now my dcs are older they are looking to society rather than to me.

pascoe28 · 10/02/2011 15:42

But the problem is that people's morals are, in many ways, subjective.

Take the examples you gave:

  • Seeking solutions for all these bloody cutbacks to make sure the vulnerable are protected.

  • People campaigning to save libraries.

  • Volunteering for community projects.

Not everyone would see these as priorities in the way that you do. Some see voluntary work as detracting from State support for people. Others see libraries as freebies for the middle classes (along with museum admissions). And as for the 'vulnerable' needing protection from these 'bloody cutbacks' - who are the 'vulnerable'? Why are they so?

Ooopsadaisy · 10/02/2011 15:48

Good point, pascoe.

I could come back to you with justifications for all those points, but you may simply have your own opinion that differs from mine. (Although I don't believe in "classes" so would argue that one until the cows come home Smile.)

So are you suggesting there should be a sort of National Charter of morality that we should all aim to adhere to? How would it be promoted and enforced?

Or do we just let society slip and slide along, dictating it's own dominant morals?

Let's face it, there will always be a dominant force won't there? At the moment I would arge that it is (sadly) slebs.

Where are our role models? Who the hell should I encourage my dcs to look up to? God? Cheryl Cole? Katie Price? David Cameron? A millionaire banker with a massive £££££ bonus?

Original poster
GabbyLoggon · 10/02/2011 16:00

PASCOE we do legislate people into keeping laws

And most parents would pass on simple laws to their children

I cringe at the word NICE. Because by one test Dave Cameron is NICE by other tests he is nasty. (adult "charm" is no real test.)

Thats why some people like "rough diamonds" Because they can be more genuine.

Just wait till you hear about "Tiger Mum"

I think libraries are more relevant than museums, opera and polo (Not the mints)
Libraries have changed. The users are from a much wider class and age range.

cheers "Gabby"

OP posts:
pascoe28 · 10/02/2011 16:10

Oopsadaisy - no, I don't believe the Govt has any role to play in promoting personal morality.

The laws that we have are designed to minimise harm and maximise 'public good' (whatever that means) but are themselves considered good/bad by people depending on their political persuasions.

The problem with politicians using the language of morality is that none of them is whiter than white and can all too easily be cast as hypocrites when their own personal failings are found out.

I think I prefer the 'slip and slide along' approach, with the dominant force of the day carrying public opinion with it...anything else is liable to become out of date pretty quickly.

(Let's not forget that 'morals' change quite quickly - prior to the Wolfenden Report in the 1960s, homosexual acts were illegal...now someone can receive a stiffer sentence if their crime is thought to be motivated by homophobia - that's quite a leap in 50 years).

GrimmaTheNome · 10/02/2011 16:15

Maybe DM readers don't teach their kids morality. Tch Tch. The paper does seem to promote some rather dubious ethical stances itself.

Original poster
GabbyLoggon · 10/02/2011 16:17

Grimma...could be you are onto something.

OP posts:
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