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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think my grandma's friend should pay for her own care?

23 replies

AKMD · 09/02/2011 13:19

My grandma, who isn't young herself, is the sole carer of a lady (call her Vera) with dementia. Vera lives in a home provided by a charity and has no known living relatives and has a generous public sector pension. Unfortunately her dementia is at a very advanced stage and she stays in most days other than when my grandma takes her to have her hair cut, to the dentist, doctor etc. She has support with personal care and cooking from NHS community nurses and charity workers. If it were not for my grandma, Vera would be in a care home.

My grandma has charge of Vera's finances and care arrangements (the legal term has slipped my mind) and makes sure that everything is paid for, completes all necessary paperwork and is in full consultation with the nurse in charge of Vera's care. A while ago, this nurse told my grandma to keep Vera buying expensive goods to keep her bank balance low enough that she doesn't have to contribute towards the cost of her care. So far, she has bought a plasma TV and replaced all the kitchen appliances but is now running out of ideas to spend this money.

AIBU to think that Vera should be contributing to her care costs rather than wasting money on things she doesn't want, use or enjoy? She isn't going to lose her home, she isn't going to leave anyone without an inheritance and to me it seems rather immoral for the nurse to want her to waste money when there are so many people with care requirements and limited funding.

OP posts:

Original poster

AKMD · 09/02/2011 13:19

Ah, got it. My grandma has power of attorney over Vera's concerns.

OP posts:

LadySanders · 09/02/2011 13:21

sounds like the nurse was trying to do her a favour and obviously didn't realise there was nobody to inherit

TattyDevine · 09/02/2011 13:22

Sorry to giggle but I'm imagining an 80 year old with dementia in head to toe Ballenciaga soon...

YANBU

fedupofnamechanging · 09/02/2011 13:27

Personally I think that if you've worked hard all your life, paid your taxes and contributed towards society, then you are entitled to be cared for properly by the state in your old age and that the government shouldn't be able to steal your money.

That said, if she doesn't leave it to anyone, the state will acquire it anyway.

I think your nan should buy her lots of things that improve the quality of her life, so she is at least getting the benefit of her money while she is still alive.

curlymama · 09/02/2011 13:29

Maybe the nurse was saying it because otherwise this woman would be left in a horrible care home with next to no money to spend on the few things she does enjoy?

Just guessing though, I have no idea how these things work.

wigglesrock · 09/02/2011 13:29

We do this with my granny, there is a limit on savings around £8,000. Sometimes, about three times a year her bank account goes slightly over and we get new lino, bit of furniture etc. She worked all her life, brought up 7 children, no state benefits then, this is a constant refrain She wants to leave her money to her family, its a loophole. My other granny is 98, she was left a private pension by her son who died, this is taken off her to fund her healthcare, she has dementia and can no longer live alone, its swings and roundabouts.

Original poster

AKMD · 09/02/2011 13:30

I think Chanel is more her style...

Karma she has everything she could possibly have to make her life ok. Her house is kitted out with safety and lifting equipment. She loves to watch TV so now has a great TV and a comfotable chair. She does not like to go out, especially to places she doesn't know. The only thing I can think of that would improve her quality of life is round the clock care to stop her from setting fire to things (and herself :0) so why on earth shouldn't she pay towards that?

OP posts:

charitygirl · 09/02/2011 13:34

'Steal your money' Karmabeliever? What?? It's unfortunate if you need care, but if you can contribute, why shouldn't you? Do you seriously think the state can afford to pay for all the social care nees of an aging population? You do realise we are not ACTUALLY a very heavily taxed nation?

We have a National Health Service, not a National Social Care Service FFS.

zipzap · 09/02/2011 13:34

do you think the nurse had vera's best interests at heart or was she looking at the flat being improved for the charity in the long term or that the tv would be nice for her to watch while sorting out vera or that vera might leave it to her after she dies?

sorry to look on the bad side of things but just wanted to check that you were happy with the suggestion IYSWIM

Does vera like animals? Could you pay for somebody to come in and bring an animal for her to cuddle for a while each week? not a thing per se but seem to remember that (for people that like pets) having access to a pet can be very soothing...

corygal · 09/02/2011 13:38

charity girl - UK taxpayers pay the most tax in Europe. More than the Swedes and the same as the Danes these days.

British tax has shot up in the last 20 years.

olderandwider · 09/02/2011 13:40

I think it is absolutely the right thing to contribute to your own care if you can afford to. Not sure why the State should support anyone so that children can inherit more money. Yes people may work hard, pay tax, raise a family - but we are all living up to 20 years or so longer now than when the welfare system was set up, and people are not working 20 more years to pay for that. Something has to give and if it's the inheritance of the next generation, that seems fair enough to me.

springbokdoc · 09/02/2011 13:41

I can see where the nurse was coming from - unfortunately what seems to happen is that if you go over the savings amount you pay for everything, which can often swallow peoples savings completely.

I think a 'top up' system would be better rather than the all or nothing system we have at the moment.

fedupofnamechanging · 09/02/2011 13:45

charitygirl - presumably she has already contributed by working and paying tax. I don't consider it fair that she should in effect pay twice, because she happens to have some money in her old age.

I have read the other thread this morning on how the government are planning to reduce the amount of tax that large companies will be paying and I do not think it is okay for the state to plead poverty when it comes to providing for old people/the disabled/children/benefit recipients etc, yet actively enable the very rich to pay even less tax than they currently do. This country is either skint or it isn't. The govt appears to pick and choose its position according to its own agenda.

Rant over. As you were

potplant · 09/02/2011 13:53

My Dad does something similar for his brother who has downs and lives in residential care home, on the recommendation of the care home manager. Its slightly different as my uncle very much enjoys all of the things he has.

My Dad says that he has to think long term about his care - what would happen to him if funding stopped (and with all the front line cuts happening now its not such an unbelievable prospect). He has to keep something back just in case.

It doesn't sit well with me at all, I don't think anyone has a right to an inheritance.

curlymama · 09/02/2011 13:59

This isn't about inheritance though, 'Vera' has nobody to leave it to! Potplant it's very unfair to say that nobody had a right to an inheritance. I got one after my Dad died when I was 14. If he was alive now, I have no doubt he would have helped me buy my first car, maybe given me something towards a deposit for my house, contributed to my wedding, bought things for my children when they were born. Why would it be ok for him to provide these things had he lived to a decent age but it's not ok to provide them because he died in his fifties and left a teenager?

curlymama · 09/02/2011 14:00

Sorry for the hijack there! It's just an attitude that really winds me up.

3littlefrogs · 09/02/2011 14:02

Your grandma should take advice from Age Concern. The best thing she could do would be to use the lady's savings to purchase an annuity to pay for care.

If the lady uses her savings and home to pay for care it will cost her a minimum of £700 per week and she will be allowed £10 spending money maximum.

Once the money runs out - which it will do very quickly, she may find herself dumped in a squalid "care home" that no-one would want to be in. It is unlikely she would be able to stay in a care home of her choice.

Portofino · 09/02/2011 14:02

Corygal- well in Belgium I pay 50% tax - and I was not a higher rate tax payer when I moved here.

LemonDifficult · 09/02/2011 14:06

Yes, YABU OP. Let it go.

Get onto the Benefit Fraud threads, there's something to really get your teeth into (and I'll be agreeing with you).

potplant · 09/02/2011 14:15

curlymama - Sorry I didn't mean that no-one should get an inheritance under any circumstances. I mean people who keep just under the savings limit so they don't have to pay for their own care so they can pass it on to relatives.

As I said, my Dad is doing the same thing as OP and I don't agree with it, even though I can see why he is doing it.

curlymama · 09/02/2011 14:18

Fair enough Potplant

longlistofthingstodo · 09/02/2011 14:20

Can she not give the money to the charity that paid for the home?

Or is it just me?

Well done your grandma, BTW

Original poster

AKMD · 09/02/2011 19:51

That's good advice littlefrogs I will raise that with my grandma. The inky other thing I could think of the money usefully doing is going towards Alzheimers research. She is unlikely to live to see the benefits but it seems a lot better to me than it being frittered on rubbish.

Just to clarify, the home she is in belongs to a private charity and is hers for as long as she wants it. She is in no danger of losing her home.

OP posts:

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