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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU?? Or my boss? Can't decide

41 replies

lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:04

Have been in my current job for years, got hours (well, days) drastically cut last year.
As a result I work Saturdays and Sundays only now (whereas i was full time before). Which was very tough plus i received no notice (the recession hit us very hard - small shop).
I didn't stay on out of loyalty but because i love the job and there isn't much else out there..
However, i have finally managed to get another job. It is also retail and also part time.
The new job does not trade on Sundays. I would be required to work some but not all Saturdays.
I informed my current employer of all this (as soon as i got offered this new job - ha at least i gave them some notice!) and asked him if i could continue working Sundays for him, and that if they ever needed cover for Saturdays then i could do that when not doing them in new job (new job is rota'd so i'd know in advance).
Because i know the current job inside out and various other reasons, i knew that he'd agree but even so i was relieved that he did say yes..
Obviously it suits me as with two p-t jobs i can now pretty much be working full time hours. So i am grateful for that and that they would not be seeking to replace me at weekends.
He and his partner would be covering the Saturdays when i have to be working them in my new job.
And this is my issue..he mentioned that there would be certain
Saturdays when it would be impossible for one of them to man the shop as would be looking after their child at same time (whilst other partner being away)..
Even though the child is at an age where they are happy to be in the shop for the day and often have in the past..in fact, numerous times inc alone with me. (i've watched them grow up).
My boss views this as a big problem now for some reason..and said he would really want me to change my days off or the rota in my NEW job (are you keeping up?!) so that I can still come back and cover for their 'important Saturdays'.
He seemed to act that as he was doing me a big favour (ie letting me stay on) therefore i could accommodate their needs..
I'm rather put out by this. So i put it to you....who's BU? Me, him or us both?
Personally..i feel that my loyalty should be to my new employer. Yes, i am grateful to current employer for keeping me on...BUT...i wouldn't be in this position (of having to find a new job) if they hadn't cut my days! (what did they expect..me to carry on working two days a week for them forever, because they could no longer afford me full time??!)
Also that i gave them notice of this (i start new job next month) whereas i got no notice when my days got cut so that particular month i received a massive drop in my paypacket (which surely is illegal? to put someone onto a part time wage from full time, without notice?)
Also I don't want to rock the boat with new employer by demanding certain days or the rota being changed...the new shop is far busier than my current and therefore i would be needed Sat's there too!
I do want to keep my current job..there are many reasons i can't explain them all here but also it makes sense as new job doesn't need me Sundays. And i need the extra money and for my own self worth, to be working more than i have been since last Spring.
However i'm a bit put out that after my current boss treating me so shabbily last yr (and i STILL stayed) that he would make such demands.
Surely their childcare is not my business plus he and his wife have several grown up kids who could babysit if need be, and there are grandparents! But the child always stayed in the shop before anyway..i guess child is now at age for wanting to do other stuff, but that isn't my fault.
I just feel that he expects my full loyalty still, without understanding that i wouldnt be in this position if they hadn't laid me off..but then am i BU because it was the recession and not his personal choice?

OP posts:
Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:06

sorry that was a long one. And i meant he OR his partner would be covering the Saturdays..not both together..

OP posts:
activate · 08/02/2011 20:06

Just say I'm sorry that may not be possible as my priority must be the people who pay me the most so lets see how it pans out shall we

say it breezily

and leave the ball in their court

HappyMummyOfOne · 08/02/2011 20:08

I think YABU re the saturdays, you want to state which you will do but they cant do the same back yet they are the employer?? They wont get far trying to hire somebody for the odd saturday.

Far easier to not work any Saturdays and just work Sundays that you know you can commit too.

Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:09

yes true..because the new job can offer me THREE days a week.

OP posts:
bubblewrapped · 08/02/2011 20:09

Bear in mind that you would be automatically taxed at a second job, as you will receive your tax allowances for one job only.

It can be split between the two but that is quite complicated to arrange, and not always possible.

I think you should just leave the original job if you can, as I can see conflicts of hours coming up very regularly.

sofaaddict · 08/02/2011 20:11

Is there any way that they could keep you on as a permanent Sunday person and then get someone to work on Saturdays (student) and other times when they might need a flexible person (ie when they or their child is sick, holidays etc.) There might well be a person who is happy to be 'bank' staff if they advertised and you could keep your regular Sunday with them? Or would they not want more staff, as they are obviously paring down? Sorry, is a bit tricky and really depends on how much you want to stay with them. Is there any chance of regualar Saturdays at your new shop that might help bumo your hours there and then you could leave the old one for good?

NancyDrewHasaClue · 08/02/2011 20:12

Your boss is BU.

You need to make it clear that

  1. your new job takes precedent.

  2. you will continue to work Sundays for as long as the arrangement works.

  3. you will work Saturdays if and only if you are available.

lazarusb · 08/02/2011 20:12

I'm interested in hearing about the legality of having your hours cut like that but I can't see how they can ask you to alter hours in your new job to suit them. Their childcare isn't the responsibility of their staff.

onimolap · 08/02/2011 20:12

My first thought was to say ride it out with as much good will as you can muster. He's probably worried about the impact on his business, and the concerns that sprang to his mind When you told him may well prove less on reflection than they first seemed.

I hope it all works out well.

sofaaddict · 08/02/2011 20:12

Lots of crossposts - HappyMummyOfOne said whwat I wanted to more succintly!

TheVisitor · 08/02/2011 20:12

I think you are, sorry. They've been good agreeing to keep you on for Sundays and the odd Saturday. Now it doesn't suit them so much. Their childcare arrangements are none of your business, and if they don't want the child in the shop, that's up to them. I don't think they expected anything from you, but you're treating the job with them as second class. An employer would expect full loyalty, quite rightly.

Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:13

I wasn't going to state which i did..what i initially said was , would they consider me for just every Sunday? He said yes. Then i mentioned i wouldn't be working every Saturday (in new job). He asked if i could still do Sats when not needed in new job...but could i change rota (if necessary) for the days he can't get child care.
Which is odd as whenever he and partner wanted a day out together in past, they would often leave child with me in shop! even though i had shop to run! But i am close to the child so didn't mind, though was difficult at busy times.
Funny how they can leave child with me for the day in shop but don't want child for their working day there!

OP posts:
Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:16

Can i say.. i would own up that i was the fully unreasonable one, if they hadn't put me up the proverbial creek last year. It got me into debt (and depression). There was literally NO notice - it was 'sorry we can't pay you full time anymore..if you want to stay on it's weekends only...from this day'.

OP posts:
ChippingInSmellyCheeseFreak · 08/02/2011 20:18

NancyDrewHasAClue (a few posts up) said exactly what I wanted to!

Thanks Nancy!

Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:18

i think might be easier to say, can do Sundays only , that way no one is messed around. I did say too..that i fully understood if he needed to replace me totally. He was ,at that stage, fine and said he knew all this was inevitable ie that i'd need to find a second (or brand new ) job.

OP posts:
MumInBeds · 08/02/2011 20:19

Just politely but firmly state that it is not possible to change the rota in the new job.

Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:23

i hear what you're saying TheVisitor but I felt that they treated me very second class when put me from 5 to 2 days a week and that was effective from the day they told me. When i'd been relying on my normal wages that month.

OP posts:
edam · 08/02/2011 20:25

His childcare is not your problem. They dropped you in it last year - and if I were you I'd have checked my employment rights at the time.

You can't be expected to mess around your new employer for the sake of your old employer's childcare. If he wants to get someone else for Saturdays, fine. I suppose there's a risk he might look for someone else for Sundays but he'd be a fool as you are obviously a loyal, experienced and committed employee.

hairylights · 08/02/2011 20:30

Neither of you are being unreasonable... you've asked to carry on doing Sundays which he's agreed to, and you've offered occasional cover on Saturdays - all you need to say 'yes, that's great, if I'm available'.

(unless I've totally misunderstood your long and confusing post Grin Wink)

Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:31

Without wishing to sound 'blowing my own trumpet' it's a very specialist shop, i have specialist knowledge to advise customers etc plus know how the business is run inside out (in fact have been practically running their lives for them too at times! nice but flakey/disorganised people)and keeping people they owe money too off their backs etc ! and they would have a hard job to replace me. As basically i learnt from years on the job.
If he'd said no to all Sat's, I would've fully understood. That wasn't the case and of course suits me too..but..he was adamant that i must do my best to change rotas to be there for certain days, whereas they showed me no loyalty last year despite me sticking it out through some very tough times with them (that werent all down to recession but to their bad management etc etc). I was totally dropped in the poo at the time i'd got engaged weeks before and they knew my DP and me were struggling and now trying to save for a wedding albeit a cheapie one (that has been all put on hold..because of this!!)

OP posts:
NancyDrewHadaClue · 08/02/2011 20:33

chipping - welcome Grin

thevisitor the old employer is having a laugh if he expects "full loyalty" having treated the OP as he did as regards her hours. You cannot just cut hours like he did. Unless there was a contractual clause in the contract that permits that then such a cut is a redundency situation and I would suggest that the Op might like to get some legal advice as I would suspect he has acted unlawfully.

OP there was absolutely nothing "good" about them keeping you on. They clearly need and trsut you and you are an asset to them. Just one that they have chosen to treat extremely unfairly.

Original poster
lololizzy · 08/02/2011 20:37

No contract. Grateful i can stay on as it suits me but wouldn't do it otherwise ie out of loyalty, if i didn't need to.
And as soon as they cut my hours..they could of course still afford a holiday Shock and asked me if i could cover for a whole ten days! Despite having just cut my days.
Am i a mug? Yes probably. But love the job/customers and needed the money ..same as now.

OP posts:
LionRock · 08/02/2011 21:16

OP

My mum ran a small, specialist shop for many years so I make some assumptions from my experience there. Here's my take (long post):

When it suited your employer, they readjusted your contract. You decided to accept the new terms. They offered you reduced hours because they still needed you - otherwise you'd be gone already. They did not do you a favour and neither did you do them a favour. Both sides agreed to the new working hours because it suited them.

You would prefer to up your income and seeing that the only way was to look outside of your current employment, you looked for other opportunities. And you found one. You have been upfront with employer #1 about the new role. You offered a suggestion (Sundays) and they said yes. They then tried to renegotiate your new contract with this business about them having priority if both employers wanted you on the same Saturday. This is not what you offered employer #1 because you can't; employer #2 must take priority as your new role definitely includes some Saturdays. Employer #1 is clearly focussing on their (anticipated) needs and is not interested in what's best for you.

So, last year they changed your role and you accepted it. Now you are changing the role and they either accept the terms you offer or they don't. Favours / previous employment rights issues / expectations of loyalty don't come into it. It's about now. Likewise their childcare is no more your issue than your other responsibilities are theirs. Neither are part of the offer of work (or what can be offered.) Don't even think about or suggest what their childcare options are - that's not your responsibility.

Do not even suggest to employer #2 that you may not be available on certain Saturdays. They will quite rightly wonder why you didn't mention this earlier, and wonder what's going on. If you say your previous employer would prefer to have you available in case they need you, employer #2 will think your loyalty lies elsewhere. Not a good way to start off.

Personally, I'd go for the new job and be prepared to say bye to the old one if it comes to that. You have to do what's best for you now. Employer #1 has already showed their hand in that respect and I think you'd be kidding yourself if you thought they'd do anything that suits you but doesn't suit them.

LionRock · 08/02/2011 21:18

btw you do have a contract even if you don't have a piece of paper. As soon as you perform duties that you are paid for, there's a contract in place.

plupervert · 08/02/2011 21:45

Ooh, a new job. Sounds good - a new start without the unpleasantness which marred the experience of the "old" one.

Employers #1 can only ask you for Saturdays, but can't force you to do them (how could they? you are giving notice!), so it is up to them whether they keep hold of a little bit of you or bugger up their own interests.

It sounds as though they are taken aback, and are even worse managers than you originally took them for. And very self-absorbed people. How could they not realise what it looks like, to take a holiday just after you have cut an employee's hours? Confused

Anyway, there is no telling whether the "new" job might have extra work for you (covering holidays for other staff. etc.), so you may find yourself in a position to up your hours in a more professional and stable environment... But you won't be in the running for any "extras" if you muck them (Employers #2) around.