... to think the gov can eff off if they think I'm going to do voluntary work?

[woollyideas]

I'm really fed up with reading about this hypothetical army of volunteers who will run our libraries, patrol school crossings etc., etc. as part of the old Big Society thingmy. AIBU to think that if I was to be made redundant due to government cuts, I would prefer to lie in bed a bit later than usual, write, paint, read, bake cakes, stick two fingers up to the Condems, etc., after 30-odd years of working? Or do you think I should just pop along and be an unpaid slave happily work for nothing in a local school or something worthy?

What would you do?

Yes we can branching out. We find more people are approaching our charity wanting to volunteer and some of them are very reliable and professional.

I think the discussions about big society and volunteering have encouraged some people to volunteer who may not otherwise have. Volunteering usually has a very low profile.

However, I think making people volunteer for benefits is problematic. Obviously it is not volunteering and is instead a mandatory work programme. It will be difficult to find enough useful work that people will be able to do.

For example, with the payback scheme for people on probation to do community work - we have had problems with people on this who have come with a supervisor to do practical tasks like digging.

Most don't want to be there and have done things like shouted offensive things at passerbys and people coming to use our services. We now don't use this scheme and I think a scheme of working for benefits would encounter similar problems.

Encouraging and making it easier for people to volunteer should happen. But as someone else pointed out, the government is actually cutting many of the grants to local charities that make this possible.

Has anyone actually considered whether this 'volunteering for benefits' is even legally viable? It sounds to me like a way around paying minimum wage to the masses. I'd be interested to know how they plan to actually get away with that, since there is no real voluntary aspect remaining.

Potholes everywhere in this plan. It's quite astounding how stupid the ConDems are, and furthermore, how they underestimate the ability of the little people (ie us) to see through them. They are basically abusing the masses and hoping we are all too stupid to realise.

Nice.

Mila Mae When I talked about volunteers in the Forest I was thinking of BTCV. For some specialisms national charities that train and recruit volunteers are more useful than local charities.

I would be surprised if recruited and trained TA'sbweren't better than volunteers where there hasn't been the same level of selection or training.

My point was just that there are some volunteers who are massively skilled and reliable. Lifeboat personnel are volunteers and have to have a very high level of skills and be very reliable.

I just don't agree with the equation that a volunteer is automatically not as skilled or trained than paid staff. In some professions that will be the case, but not overall.

I guess that won't bother DC as his kids will be off to Eton and the like.

This is another thing that bothers me about all this. We are the ones who are going to have to poke up with this eg our forests mis managed,our dc being taught by unqualified TAs,our elderly being cared for by people out of their depth) etc.

The rich won't, if they have inferior services they'll just go private or pay for what we'll all be missing out on(forests,swimming pools,libraries,care for our elderly etc) if things get run into the ground.

BTW I was really surprised when visiting relatives in New Zealand to be told that the women I spoke to on their directory enquiries (always seemed to be women) were volunteers.

I've had volunteers who can't spell in my classroom. When you take on a TA the jobs are so sort after you will get better quality help. Only the best get the jobs and that is what our kids deserve.

Re training-it costs and will just be taken elsewhere the minute said volunteer feels like it.If they're not being paid there will be no incentive to stay.A pay packet is also going to make staff stability.Do our kids deserve volunteers drifting in and out of schools in between jobs taking valuable training(paid out of a school budget) with them????? No they do not.

fine, but there are teachers who can't spell in a lot of schools and TAs who can't spell in ours.
I think professionals can get a bit precious at times.

Bring back folk music. It won't help, but we'll have something to sing while we're forced to do our jobs for no pay (PCT worker with library/information management DH, guess how valued we feel right now, Dave...)

So, after three (pint in hand and guitar to the ready)

Dick Gaughan's the Worker's song...

Come all of you workers who toil night and day
By hand and by brain to earn your pay
Who for centuries long past for no more than your bread
Have bled for your countries and counted your dead

In the factories and mills, in the shipyards and mines
We've often been told to keep up with the times
For our skills are not needed, they've streamlined the job
And with sliderule and stopwatch our pride they have robbed

But when the sky darkens and the prospect is war
Who's given a gun and then pushed to the fore
And expected to die for the land of our birth
When we've never owned one handful of earth?

We're the first ones to starve the first ones to die
The first ones in line for that pie-in-the-sky
And always the last when the cream is shared out
For the worker is working when the fat cat's about

All of these things the worker has done
From tilling the fields to carrying the gun
We've been yoked to the plough since time first began
And always expected to carry the can

And volunteers who stay volunteering for years and years in the same volunteer position.

Some of the organisations who give people lots of training ask volunteers to commit for a minimum time such as 2 years. Relate and other counselling charities do this for example.

that is a very good idea Nightlark.
I look forward to hearing The Song Of The Unemployed Middle Classes and The SAHM's Lament in a pub near me.

I can't honestly see where this influx of capable willing volunteers to plug the gaps opened up by funding cuts is going to come from. From what I can see, people who are already volunteering now may have to give it up to get a paid job and boost their family income when it drops due to, er...funding cuts.

Good one, NightLark.

'Work without love is slavery.' - The Blessed Mother Theresa

I like Arlo Guthrie's 'Pastures of Plenty', although it was written in the honour of Mexican migrant workers.

'Forwards we rumble
that river and I.
All along your green valleys
I work till I die.'

Expat yes! that's a blast from the past!

You may get some volunteers who stay but a pay packet will make stability more likely. Plenty of people stay in jobs they don't enjoy because of the money with volunteering there isn't that incentive.

Also as Brecon says more people will want to work. Even pensioners are going to need to work more with the high cost of living,cuts etc. The minute they get an offer they'll be off taking all that lovely training with them and who can blame them.Thats assuming money will always be available to give training as without a contract staff won't be able to expect it.

I love that one, ilove!

'Took beets from the ground,
I've cut grapes off the vine.
To set at your table,
and that white, sparkling wine.'

at the 'Song of the Unemployed Middle Classes', I wish I had the talent to do better than this.

'In the offices and schools, in the wards and the shops / we've often been thought of as watching the clocks / they say we're not needed, we're not worth the pay / but we're here every year at the end of the day /

they talk of the bureaucrats, of the back office jobs / they think its not needed cos we're not making hods /
of the cash that is all that they value today / but there's more than one way to 'add value', we say /

through our study, our training, our years of work / there is more to this game than just being here, you berk. / but tear it all down, through our protests and tears / you'll just wish you hadn't, in a couple of years...

Oh, I could go on and on, but DD needs waking from her nap (so you can all breath a big sigh of relief now)

brilliant, NightLark!

SwallowedAFly iiuc, this already happens. Anyone on certain benefits who refuses to take a job is severely penalised financially. I think they have to start work within something like 24 or 48 hours, if demanded. You can look up JobSeekers Allowance and Income Support if you want know for sure.

Hi all

Just skimmed through the comments on this, when I posted giving examples of my family's volunteering, the point is that they are all quite enjoyable. I just do not think many people want to pick up litter, be a lolly pop lady, or help the homeless etc. for free.

It is rather wishful thinking on David Cameron's part, and this big society is definitely not a vote winner.

Work with addicts. I once had a temp gig - had to be vetted for it, though - doing maternity cover in a methadone clinic.

That was an eye-opening experience.

I totally agree that people volunteer to do things they want to do. It tends to be either because it is enjoyable, or it is something they strongly care about. So homeless shelters do get quite a few people who really want to volunteer.

I particularly like the rhyming of "work" and "berk", Nightlark!

Re volunteering on benefits. I sympathise with people who are on benefits due to being a carer or not able to get a job due to recession.

I have nothing against having a year or two of your life on benifits due to lack of jobs, what I do take issue with is people who have had a lifetime on benefits, out of choice. Some people make the lifestyle choice not to work, and I'm all for these people having to do volunteer work. Many fruit and veg farmers would tell you they would like to employ local people, but no British person wants to do the job. I did spend part of a summer grading potatoes, and I recall I was paid better for this than my other job waitressing.

I do think there is a good argument, that if you have been on benefits for over two years, that you should have to do some volunteer work.