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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To challenge this parking ticket?

55 replies

BerylStreep · 02/02/2011 21:11

We went into town on Monday 3rd Jan (which was a bank holiday as 1st was on a Saturday). I parked in a pay & display space, and went to pay at the ticket machine, when I noticed it said on the machine:

?Charges apply Monday to Saturday 8am to 6pm except 1 January, Easter Monday, 12 and 13 July, 25 and 26 December or days in lieu.?

As a result of the notice, I thought that as Monday 3rd was the bank holiday in lieu of New Years Day, that no fee was needed and I therefore did not purchase a ticket. When I returned to my car, I discovered I had been given a parking ticket, which is £60, or £30 if paid within a certain period.

I have written to appeal the ticket, and have received a response saying that charges were suspended on Saturday 1st, and so charges applied on Monday 3rd, so I therefore have to pay the ticket.

There is a further appeal mechanism, but the discounted rate will have expired, so if I lose the appeal, I will need to pay £60.

I honestly thought that no fee was required. I was willing to pay for parking. If they are saying a fee was due, I think the notice on the machine is ambiguous at best, and misleading.

AIBU? And do you think I should just pay up, or appeal?

OP posts:
Underachieving · 04/02/2011 03:35

It seems entirely reasonable to expect that this was a day on which there would not be parking charges as it was the day on which the public holiday fell- the public holiday in lieu of New Years Day.

If they want to opperate rules different to the expected norms they are going to have to be a lot clearer in how they explain them. There is an obligation on them to be clear and unambiguous and this sign was not.

Pay and then appeal is bad advice, if you pay it is an admission of wrongdoing, there is no appeal after that. So don't pay but do appeal.

Also checking what everyone else is doing is no indicator of the technically correct thing to do either. All it will tell you is what other people did.

Pepipoo is helpful for this kind of thing.

CaveMum · 04/02/2011 07:23

You could try contacting this website which specialises in helping people to appeal their parking fines. They should be able to advise you if you're ticket is invalid due to incorrect signage.

firesoup · 04/02/2011 08:19

i think there is def a case for appeal, regardless of the 3rd jan the sign sounds very badly worded to me, far too much scope for confusion. i got a parking ticket recently and appealed it (and won :) ) but i was told that they "stop the clock" reduced fee time untill the appeal is over, then restart it if you don't win. might be worth asking

Original poster
BerylStreep · 04/02/2011 16:49

I have already written to the Roads Service twice. (Twice because in their first response they incorrectly quoted the signage on the machine, which I responded to, by sending them a photo of the machine, pointing out what was actually on it, nit what they said was on it.)

On both occasions they have said the parking ticket will still stand. The next step is a formal appeal process, but I have to wait until they issue a formal 'notice to owner' before I can appeal, by which time the reduced rate of £30 will have expired. They were very explicit that if it goes to appeal, the amount to pay would be £60.

I will have a look at those links - thanks.

OP posts:
QueenStromba · 04/02/2011 17:08

It really does sound like they're trying to push you into paying fine without appealing by telling you that if you do appeal and lose you will have to pay the full £60. Personally I would put the £60 to one side, appeal on principle and then spend the money on a nice meal or something if I won.

QueenStromba · 04/02/2011 17:16

Oh and if I lost I would appeal the amount of the fine since they are basically charging you £30 for a failed appeal - I'm wondering if there has been a test case as to whether this is actually legal, if there hasn't been then I'm sure they will be keen to just let you pay the £30 rather than it potentially becoming precedent. Have a look at this link:

www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/HowToAppealAParkingTicket.html

Bunnyjo · 04/02/2011 18:19

Personally I think YANBU to consider an appeal, but I am not certain you will win - for the following reason.

Parking charges, in the carpark you refer to, are paid Monday to Saturday and, as 1st January fell on a Saturday, parking will have been free on that day. Therefore no day in lieu needed to be granted, if that makes sense?

Good luck if you do decide to appeal and hopefully they will make the signage in the carpark somewhat clearer.

taintedpaint · 04/02/2011 18:34

I was about to post the same thing as Bunnyjo. There was free parking on 1st January when they wouldn't otherwise have been (1st Jan being a Saturday, and that being a day that is usually charged for), so there would be no free day in lieu.

YANBU to try to appeal, it's always worth a shot, but I'd bet my last penny you won't get anywhere, since, strictly speaking, they were right to fine you. The fact that so many people made the same mistake may mean you have grounds to complain about how clear the signage was (although I'm not sure how it was misconstrued tbh), but I doubt that will get you the fine rescinded.

MerylStrop · 04/02/2011 18:36

I'd just pay up.

It is tight though.

Ealingkate · 04/02/2011 18:45

I have appealed on a number of parking tickets, well at least 4 I can remember, and I have appealed to PATAS as well and had them quashed every time. The official body overturns about 80% of parking appeals in favour of the driver.
The wording is ambiguous and therefore I would definitely appeal, you will get some very official sounding documents that might worry you but if you clearly, but succintly put over your point that you checked the pay & display machine and concluded that 3rd counted as a day in lieu (no further explanation was given on the machine as to what constitued a day in lieu), then I think you would stand a very good chance. IMO anyway.

Thistledew · 04/02/2011 18:51

Appeal. If the appeal system is anything like in England the parking authority hardly ever bothers to attend so if you have a reasonable case to argue it will be found in your favour. You could check to see whether the Tribunal has discretionary powers to set the level of the fine. If they do, it may be that they would not fine you more than £30 even if you were to lose, but as I said, check this first.

Ultimately, you have to decide how much your time is worth. Is it worth £30 to you to lose at least half your day going to an appeal hearing?

I got a fine in similar circumstances, but as I work freelance I would have lost more money in attending an appeal hearing than I would have saved by avoiding the fine.

JBellingham · 04/02/2011 18:52

Appeal, they probably would not bother wasting money on a court case to try and get 60 quid, its not in their interest.

LadyOfTheManor · 04/02/2011 18:56

Appeal. Money grabbing bastards. I appealed my speeding fine to no avail, but I felt better for telling them that they were jobsworths and that they should really be out catching criminals (of which I am not one).

Appeal!

YANBU

olderandwider · 04/02/2011 18:57

I would appela on the grounds that the sign is ambiguous. Pay the £30 (to avoid the higher penalty charge) but write "Without Prejudice" at the top of your appeal letter, to make clear that by paying the fine you are not admitting you were at fault. Good luck.

olderandwider · 04/02/2011 18:58

appeal I mean!

Underachieving · 06/02/2011 11:31

They will always try to give you the impression you can't win and therefore it's better not to argue. It's playground bully psychology at it's best.

The other thing they do is say they'll take you to court, as if the phrase "take you to court" means "have you shackled in irons". It doesn't. It means you both put your sides of the story before a neutral 3rd party with a lot of experience with this stuff. Obviously that's the last thing the school bully parking office want you to do.

Which is exactly why you should. They only don't want you to because they don't want to lose. Your point that it's fair to expect Bank Holiday Monday 3rd of January to be the day in lieu of New Years Day is a pretty decent point. Add to that their lying about the sign and you can be pretty sure they know they're in the wrong. Hence the pressure on you to sit down and shut up.

I've had 3 parking tickets in my life, 2 on-street and 1 in a carpark. All of which I won on appeal because the council were not adhering to the last letter of the rules. The rules aren't just there for them, they are there to protect us from councils taking the p*ss too.

ivykaty44 · 06/02/2011 11:33

or days in lieu

UANBU

photo the sign and take them on

Underachieving · 06/02/2011 11:33

Oh and as well as pepipoo another good resource can be your car insurer. If you have legal cover give the legal line a ring. Advice from them was how I won the first 2 appeals.

amicissima · 06/02/2011 13:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannyl · 06/02/2011 13:26

IMO YANBU

appeal

Original poster
BerylStreep · 10/05/2011 16:34

Update: I appealed the ticket and the Roads Service rejected it, so I opted to go to the parking appeals tribunal, which was listed for this Friday. I have just got a letter from the Tribunal saying that the Roads Service have said they will not be contesting the ticket, so it is now withdrawn. RESULT!!

It just shows how it is worth pursuing it to the end. We are going out for dinner tonight, so the £60 will cover the meal and babysitter!

OP posts:
IFoundMyIdenticalHandTwin · 10/05/2011 16:41

Nice one!

CurrySpice · 10/05/2011 18:03

Excellent!! :o

Hello btw!

CurrySpice · 10/05/2011 18:03

Oh sorry, I thought you were someone I know Confused

Still excellent though!

Original poster
BerylStreep · 10/05/2011 22:33

I'm still chuffed.

I think Roads Service decided not to contest it, as if they lost (which I think would have been extremely likely) they may have had to refund all the other tickets which were issued that day (over 200 were issued in Belfast for not displaying a pay & display tickets on that day alone), and probably have to invest in changing the signs.

But why almost 5 months of posturing, telling me I was in the wrong? In a way I feel cheated after all this hassle - I wanted them to be told they were wrong to issue the ticket in the first place.

Honestly - some people are never happy. Smile

OP posts:
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