...to think that weed can and does ruin lives and isn't 'harmless'?

[madonnawhore]

I know there are people who maintain that cannabis is harmless and they smoke it and they're fine blah blah blah.

I used to smoke it, all my friends used to smoke it, but none of us do any more because, you know what? it doesn't half make you a boring, lazy bastard.

Never mind the whole 'it causes psychosis' debate (my brother and a really good friend of mine both had to receive mental health treatment as a result of smoking weed), but there's a thread over on relationships at the moment about some woman's husband who spends all his salary on weed within the first 3 days of payday and who has actually cut his hours so that he can stay home and play more computer games.

AIBU in presuming that if he wasn't such a pot head, he'd be more inclined to get of his arse and go to work?

Sitting on your backside playing COD all day cos you can't be fucked to do anything else is not harmless.

I didn't! I likened it to alcohol, fags and junk food - which are similarly bad for us, when consumed to excess.

What's your beef?

The processed carbs analogy is an interesting one I think. Surely noone can deny that they are a killer in our society, and do untold physical, mental and social damage. But would anyone actively tell people that they couldn't take them, make them illegal or try to deny that some people are quite capable of taking processed carbs in moderation, infrequently, sociably and enjoyably? without damaging their own health or those of them around them?

Now substitute cannabis for processed carbs in that paragraph and us it still true?

For some cannabis is harmless. For others it isn't. For some processed carbs are harmless. For others they aren't. That's as far as you can generalise I think.

Why should one substance be demonised over another? Why should one person's freedom to use a substance without harm be curtailed because if another's inabilty? If you advocate a blanket ban on cannabis, you should advocate a blanket ban on cake.

Personally I would advocate neither. I would instead educate people to be more aware of the social and emotional circumstances that lead to addiction in themselves and others. And empower them to react accordingly to safeguard themselves and those they love. Either by providing or seeking adequate support.

Idealistic I know. Far more realistic to acknowledge that as a species we're flawed. We take pleasure in doing stuff that's bad for us. Always have always will.

I think the answer to your question is: history, Mapley. If alcohol, sugar, tobacco, lard and coffee had only recently been discovered they'd be illegal.

I agree with you, btw: I'd like all controlled substances (and prostitution) to be legalised, monitored and taxed like any other business. I fail to understand why we still haven't learned from the American Prohibition. But that's a whole other thread!

Smoking weed in adolescence increases risk of mental illness, especially paranoia and such

Aye grace, me too. But then as a species we're just as likely to continually not learn from our mistakes as to continually shovel stuff that's no good for us down our necks. We're deliciously flawed. But also incredibly successful, so we must be doing something right! Maybe all the bad stuff we do isn't actually that bad?

And personally I think there are benefits to taking drugs. Their effect on creativity is a signifcant one, I think you'll find a startling amount of music, literature and art is created with the influence of a drug if somekind. And that's not just in our times, Keats, Shelley and the like were notorious addicts etc. and I'm sure there were plenty prophets who liked to indulge.

Moaning, yes, but not in all, only in some. Personally I was a very happy teenage stoner!

As a drug worker in a male prison I am only too aware of the damage cannabis use can cause.
Given that the cannabis in use now is many many times stronger than that used years ago it's use can and does contribute to serious mental health problems. These problems not only affect the individual but also those immediately involved with that person and society as a whole. Another point to bear in mind is that cannabis is often used openly at home, in the presence of children, clearly this gives the next generation the message that it's use is acceptable.
It is not the harmless herb that many people think!

cannabis is like a number of other drugs, fine in moderation, if you smoke it all the time the yes of course it will dramatically change your life just as drinking heavily on a daily basis would have.

Hellebore - agreed, but again the same could be said of watching your parents drink regularly, or stuff themselves with shite that makes them lardy and unhealthy. There's a lot of normalising that going on, wouldn't you say?

My dd is likely to want to study art/design; if she goes to college and hangs around with students who tell her she can't possibly understand colour (for example) unless she tries drugs, what can I say to counter that? It was the one argument which I found convincing in my far-off youth - the doors of perception one. But I really don't want dd to try drugs - we are an addictive lot, we never do things by half.

i think some people are ignoring the chicken-and-egg nature of mental health and drug issues.

people who want to take enormous amounts of drugs usually have a problem already, a problem that isn't solved purely by giving up the drugs.

I was moved by a drugs counsellor on Radio 4 who said in bald terms that the huge majority of drugs use is harmless - the problem lies in the underlying mental health issues that cause people to want to come off the rails with them. Those problems aren't helped by illegality - far from it. He said that he'd find it much easier to help drug abusers if it wasn't illegal, if they weren't in fear of prosecution, and if some of them hadn't been further traumatised by going to prison and having the subsequent problems caused by trying to get a job with a criminal record.

mrshuxley I think the best thing to do is be honest with her - about your own experiences, about the pleasurable effects and about the very real risks. This is what I'm doing with my two, who are also headed for art college.

If I just said, 'drugs are dangerous, don't try them' and they then see lots of people smoking cannabis without problems, why should they believe a word I say?

All I'm trying to say I suppose is that you can (generic you) choose your poison, and I'll choose mine.
Don't sit there resting a beer can on your (again, generic your) ever expanding gut, thinking 'well, I'm not a druggie, so it's all fine'.

It isn't. Remember that while you (still generic!) are pursing your lips at my spliff, I'm noting the way your belly hangs over your jeans, and how your kids are beginning to look a bit porky too. That's all.

Might as well open another bottle eh? You only live once.

Yes it can. Working in a prison for a while highlighted that very very well, and very quickly.

Of course alcohol is a drug of sorts too and can also be abused. However, for me at least, there is a big difference - alcohol is LEGAL.

Thanks, Parsnips. I'd like to be able to say something to her about making sure she only takes the good stuff if she absolutely must try anything. Also, having been a slave to nicotine for much of my life, I'm not keen on her getting the smoking addiction either; but AFAIK she will need to learn to inhale to get any effect from a spliff. So that's a bit crap, too, in my book.

Smoking weed in adolescence increases risk of mental illness, especially paranoia and such

.. the problem with that sort of stat is - that 'nice' kids with strong academic backgrounds are less likely to do this, whereas kids who've been drinking special brew since age 8 and smoking weed since 10 are going to much much more likely to have MH issues - deprivation is a strong indicator of depression and associatd problems.

My personal feeling on this: Poverty is the real problem.

Studies of university educated weed smoker showed weed use to be pretty much benign.

What difference does 'LEGAL' make to the debate?

The fact that someone can get into trouble with the law for smoking weed, doesn't detract from the fact that many legal substances are just as damaging.

It simply makes the law an ass.

one of my friends was a stoner for a while, stopped. then her adiction to fat and sugar really kicked in. she got through it after about 4 years of various kinds of counselling.

The affect that food addiction can have on a persons life is really shocking. but i don't think we should be banning food

fantoosh as far as i can see, some of the worst harms of cannibis are caused by its illegality.

I don't think laws are an indicator of what's good for us and what's not. Laws are made by human beings, and human beings are fallible.

You make a good point there, Edgar. Interesting how history has airbrushed the fact that many of the great Victorian movers & shakers were morphine addicts. There are still a few (non-airbrushed) photos of some of them injecting themselves through their trousers, in Parliament! It didn't wreak destruction in their lives because they were well-fed, healthy, secure and had access to clean supplies.

Agreed Edgar.

I'm only fixating on it as it's an oft heard argument against. 'But...but...but it's illegal!!'

So is downloading movies off the internet and burning them. Everyone breaks the law.

Other than that I agree with what you said.

I still wouldn't encourage smoking weed by having it anywhere in the house. Or normalising it in any way, or making it legal.

It was at university full of privately educated children that I saw most lazy stoners. Some got out of it some didn't. What a waste.

marsha but that's anecdote - the data shows that university educated weed smokers had the expected incidence of MH issues - not a higher incidence.
Some of any group of kids in early adulthood enounter problems- its a difficult time.

It's not very pleasant living next door to a dealer, cannabis may seem fairly harmless, but it doesn't sound like it through my walls, or feel like it when I go out the front door to be confronted by hoodies, nor did the picture of a friend's ex who was jumped just outside my door for his cannabis by other youths look particularly harmless. It might seem like nothing, but my eyes have been opened to the criminals who make cannabis smoking possible, and it's hard to see it in the same way as some of my friends do.