...to think that weed can and does ruin lives and isn't 'harmless'?

[madonnawhore]

I know there are people who maintain that cannabis is harmless and they smoke it and they're fine blah blah blah.

I used to smoke it, all my friends used to smoke it, but none of us do any more because, you know what? it doesn't half make you a boring, lazy bastard.

Never mind the whole 'it causes psychosis' debate (my brother and a really good friend of mine both had to receive mental health treatment as a result of smoking weed), but there's a thread over on relationships at the moment about some woman's husband who spends all his salary on weed within the first 3 days of payday and who has actually cut his hours so that he can stay home and play more computer games.

AIBU in presuming that if he wasn't such a pot head, he'd be more inclined to get of his arse and go to work?

Sitting on your backside playing COD all day cos you can't be fucked to do anything else is not harmless.

and I've never known a weed smoker who is capable of getting anything done (well, except for rolling another joint). I've also never known anyone smoke it in moderation - even though they usually think otherwise

I think the key there is YOU HAVE NEVER KNOWN....thats doesn't make it a general fact & as such is a ridiculously sweeping statement, which in my own experience, is completely WRONG for example Canabis is well know (& medically so) for stimulating creative thinking, therefore anyone suffering a "creative block" & then uses canabis to help that along, WILL then be capable of getting more done as a result

"I think one of the problems is that people who do use cannabis try to persuade other people to do so. "

In fairness go out for a night and don't drink. See how some people react. There are people who seem to take offence at the idea of someone else not drinking.

Weed brought on psycotic episodes in one of my siblings causing several stays in mental wards over the last 5 years. Its does ruin lives permenantly.

You would be very lucky if you enjoy it harmlessly and can still function but this is not the case for everyone.

My mums life has been ruined as she is his carer and he is in his 30s.

well said, maryz.

I agree with you babylann. I think we can all agree that children shouldn't be smoking it, and that it shouldn't be smoked to excess, moderation is the key.

Also, is it the weed itself that is addictive or the tobacco it's rolled with? Also, the lung disease, is that the weed itslef or, again, the tobacco?

Did anyone see that programme the other night... Cannabis: What's the harm?
I never knew it was legal in 15 US states!

So what are the arguments for dope smoking? To help you relax; to promote creative thinking; what else?

mayorquimby spot on, as a very rare drinker, I can vouch for that & IME people find it very hard to take no for an answer where drink is involved, but IME not so where Canabis is.....though I CAN see thats not the case for everyone & youngsters in particular are at risk there

I smoked it once and threw up everywhere. Ditto with alcohol.... My nan used to use it medicinally for her MS but then used to drive her scooter up the stairs...

Not sure what my point is actually....

All the effects with none of the substance maybe.

because I enjoy it would be my main argument mrshuxley.
It's something that gives me a nice high and doesn't harm anyone else but myself.
I probably smoke it about 4/5 times a year at this stage.

I think cannabis is worse for your lungs than smoking, but only because people who smoke it don't use filters (to get more of a hit from the drug), and filters are obviously there to stop some of the bad going from cig/joint to body.

But I think I heard on a documentary that it's no worse for you than smoking normally.

foxter - addictive bit = part nicotine, part tetrahydrocannabinols (THCs) which fire up a feel-good receptor in the brain.
cancerous bit = smoke and combustion products from the tobacco mainly.

In my experience of knowing several lifetime heavy weed smokers, this is what I think...

Just like alcohol or any other substance, for some it is highly addictive, and so in those cases it has harmful qualities.

NB: This is not the same at all as someone who enjoys a spliff recreationally, and can take it or leave it. Again, just the same as alcohol or any other drug.

My number one issue is this: have you tried to live with someone who has given up smoking strong skunk? To live with a week or more of moodswings and irritability is no fun at all, and is very upsetting and stressful.

Once a heavy weed smoker, always a heavy weed smoker. All those I know had to either go all or nothing. There is no in between. They cannot have it in the house because if it's there, they have to smoke it.

Those I know who gave up felt they were wasting away hours of their time, and were sick of having a foggy head in the morning. Whilst they were still able to work and function, it definitely impaired their clarity of mind. They did not feel motivated.

They were also bored of feeling stressed out as they saw their quarter dwindle, knowing they'd have to be on the phone trying to sort some more before they ran out. (And this stage can make them just as irritable as when trying to give up - so is also a nightmare!)

I am not against recreational weed smoking at all, but I think people should be honest with themselves as to the effect it has on them, and whether it is having an effect on the important people in their lives.

Like any intoxicant, it has its risks. I have yet to see any evidence that it's any more harmful than alcohol.

For those of you saying that all the smokers you know smoke to excess/try to recruit others etc. consider this: cannabis is currently illegal and so it's not something most smokers shout about. It's quite probable you are only seeing a self-selecting group of those who have a problem with it to the extent that they can't hide their habit.

I do think the prevalence of skunk is very worrying and I fail to see the attraction. It's like downing a half-bottle of gin every time you fancy a drink.

There's an excellent BBC programme on the risks of cannabis here for those who may have missed it.

Canabis is well know (& medically so) for stimulating creative thinking" - have you any evidence of this, because my first reaction is "you must be fucking joking maryz I'm not talking about Skunk or similar, I hate that stuff as much as you obviously do & I can see why its use, ESPECIALLY in teens is causing such awful problems, but there is plenty of stuff on the internet that supports my statement, I could search & post links but suspect I'd be wasting my time as it would never be believed anyway, so I won't, but from personal experience, as a successful designer I can vouch for weaker less psycotic Canabis forms as being useful in such circumstance......

mrshuxley its also a fantastic pain killer for some conditions

maryz you're lumping it all in together, skunk, hash, bought leaf, homegrown, bud, different strains...its all different, and it is simply not true that its all addictive. It's just not.

foxter - that's the prog I just linked to - xpost

I think the US experiment may well turn round and bite them on the arse - they all seemed to be smoking the strong stuff with gay abandon, which has been shown to cause problems.

I think the creative thinking stuff was covered in the BBC 'how drugs work' programme - seems there is some evidence for this.

I totally agree with you OP. I don't know why people, including those in power, are so quick to dismiss cannibis, especially skunk,as innocuous. I know three people (from when I was younger) who ended up being sectioned due to mental health conditions started or at least exascerbated by heavy cannibis use.

One fellow was known as 'Catatonic John' - he smoked so much weed he literally became catatonic and had to have EST to 'bring him back'. Another had a nervous breakdown and had to be sectioned and a third developed schizophrenia (which probably wopuld have begun at some point anyway, in fairness) during a 'tour' of Amsterdam drug dens.

I would not be happy if I ever caught either of my DSs smoking weed when they are older (despite having had a fair old few puffs myself in my troubled youth). Drugs - and I include alcohol and cigs - only bring you down. It is borrowed happiness that you will pay for with some other part of your health.

I did shed loads of drugs when I was younger due to being deeply unhappy and to be honest I think that is the main reason most people take them. If you need to be high/pissed/chilled then there is something in your life which is making you unhappy and it needs to be addressed.

I'd agree it's not harmless, just like the other props mentioned - tobacco, alcohol, etc. My brothers smoked it for about five years on and off; one became very anti-social and an absolutely changed person with paranoia.

Like anything else though, if you enjoy whatever your 'poison' is, you're going to defend it come what may. :(

^Weed itself is addictive.

People say it isn't, but the stuff they smoke nowadays is very strong, and very addictive^

maryz I totally agree with that, you CAN still get the weaker stuff, but its just not whats readily available, & from over here in my corner THAT is the crux of the problem, as youngsters new smoking won't know the difference & smoke whats on offer, & end up in a total mess, because it IS very different.....if it were legalised THAT could be better controlled, in the same way you wouldn't go out & down pints of vodka over beer if you actually were able to make an informed choice, its the subversive nature of it that makes that choice so hard

I think the 'addictive' argument is not worth having. Anything can be addictive anyway. My sister was addicted to Es but when she tried to get help from various agencies, she couldn't get any as they kept telling her that ecstasy is not addictive. Didn't help her to know that when she was sitting in her house on her own with 15 Es in her.