To get annoyed at all the waste

[Kiwiinkits]

Why don't people care! It drives me bonkers (and I'm no greeny hippy; just an average mum who puts out her recycling once a week).

I just don't know how parents can think nothing of throwing away disposable nappy after disposable nappy, until a child is over two! Why is there NO GUILT at using special plastic bags to throw the nappy away in. Why is there NO GUILT at using horrible chemical wipes instead of a cloth and water. A cloth and water works fine, is free, and is better for baby's bum, too!

Rant over. It really just makes me sad to think about the irresponsible, irreparable waste of it all.

Rant over. I don't care what you all say, I just want someone out there to read this and think about how they can change their ways a little bit.

I know, I think I chose the wrong brand (hard to tell though, it's all very well reading reviews etc but different nappies suit different children, I saw that with my 2. Just couldn't afford to sink any more money into trying different brands :(

Anyway nobody can do everything right. I figure we make up for it by not having a car, hardly flying ever, not using lots of gadgets, not having pets (dogs especially have a MASSIVE carbon pawprint) blah blah blah.

What I mean is everyone should do what they can of course, but nobody can do absolutely everything. And what really pisses me off is that all the govt propaganda tells us to do our bit, so we all get hung up on minutiae of recycling cereal boxes, when they aren't legislating against massive companies! How are we supposed to recycle everything when they are allowed to overpackage everything with non-recyclable plastic? And why tell us to switch a light off when lights are left on overnight in shops and offices? And expect people to fly and drive less when also talking about new airports and incentivising people to buy more cars?

Hypocritical much?!

Freudian you are SO right about over-packaging (another one of my bugbears). I almost cry when I see pallets being unpacked in warehouses and they are wrapped in acres and acres of plastic wrap. And Christmas makes my teeth itch, all that plastic packaging and polystyrene being thrown away. Let alone going to a supermarket in the UK where the FRUIT IS ON POLYSTYRENE TRAYS AND WRAPPED IN PLASTIC! How the powers that be think that it is perfectly acceptable to do that is beyond me.

It seems my rant wasn't over after all. Sorry everyone. I will piss off now and go and think of something nice to do to get my mind off it.

Don't even get me started on paper kitchen towels and people who use them profligately. In my house they are only used for things like wiping up cat sick, ie. situations where a reusable cloth just will not do!

What's with the people who use them to wipe up a splash of juice or - as a former lodger did - to wipe his apples. Use water and your t-shirt, for goodness sake.

Aah, I feel better now...

I don't care what you all say

I won't say any thing then!

"God knows I throw stuff away too)."

Tell us what then, so we can judge you. Perhaps you throw stuff away that I wouldn't dream of chucking.

surely the disposable nappies are a drop in the ocean compared to the impact of bringing a whole new life into the world? just think of all the resources that extra person (and their possible future offspring) will use!

are you feeling guilty?

Is this whole thread just an advert for kiwiinkits' brand of nappy?

Nope, a cloth and water DO NOT work equally well. I use cloth nappies and fell for that guff.

I quickly switched to wipes as I was smearing as much poo back on to ds1's bottom as I was taking off. Unless I changed the water after every wipe it was hopeless.

I too dislike waste but I LOATHE green martyrdom.

why put the blame and responsiblity on us? I think a better question is why aren't all nappies biodegradable? I use naturecare, which are, so why don't pampers, etc, make them too? same with the wipes, use Eco ones.

The amount of extra washing from cloth nappies is extraordinary! Not to mention the use of air freshener and disinfectant to cover up the stench of the nappy bucket...plus the fact that you have to have the heating on longer or use the tumble drier to dry them because they just won't bloody dry in this weather...

Naturecare isn't fully biodegradable though - IIRC, it's only the back sheet that is, plus the compostable material is those little barrier strips that stop poo from leaking. So, by my calculations, less than 20% of the actual nappy is biodegradable, perfume and GM-free claims notwithstanding. I would discount the heavy premium one would have to pay for them against the actual benefit they provide for the environment.

OTOH, I made the decision in my mid-twenties to have just one child. I figured that decision would be most beneficial for the environment

I use cloth nappies because I like them and also because of the whole landfill arguement however, I do have the heating up......yummy nice toasty house
I don't find that they cause me a huge amount of extra washing though?!?!?! My house doesn't smell because of the nappy bucket either..it has a lid!
I use cloth wipes for my sons face and hands when after eating etc but not for his arse as i would have to have about 40 as he poo's so much!
I think most people do their best for the enviroment in their own way and in a way that works for them. I'm not perfect but I try.
Someone said dogs have a huge carbon print???? that was a joke right??? otherwise I would like to know how.

I think that if you can do it then it's a great thing. I intended to with my son and gave it a go but he was a heavy-wetter and I ended up washing alot of clothes as well which while I was dealing with his reflux was too much for me to cope with and not very practical in winter.

I appease my conscience (a little) by putting out less rubbish of other types, walking as much as possible and buying food that's not packaged.

I don't think you would ever persuade everyone to use cloth nappies and so think we (as a country) should investigate the possibility of recycling disposables like they do in Finland. If it's feasible there surely we could do it here?

"I don't think you would ever persuade everyone to use cloth nappies and so think we (as a country) should investigate the possibility of recycling disposables like they do in Finland. If it's feasible there surely we could do it here?"

I have to search where it was but I am sure I have once seen on TV about nappies being recycled into fire extinguisher foam of some sortin the Netherlands. Hope I have not dreamt it as I found the idea fabulous!

You know being a smug fucker about stuff like this makes everyone you talk to want to waste more stuff, just to spite you?

Seriously, after reading your witterings I think I might put all my nicely washed out jars and tins in the regular black bin along with my mountain of disposable nappies.

I investigated reusables before DS1 was born, and a reputable magazine here (Germany) had done a comparison between disposables and reusables and it concluded only when using a nappy service was there any noticable positive ecological difference. It covered average nappy production, lifetime and disposal. (I think the UK equivalent magazine is 'Which' (?)) (Mind you nappies aren't landfill in this part of Germany, they are burnt in a powerplant, therefore producing electricity before they dissapear.)

There are so many things which you can do to make a noticable difference to the environment, but nappy choice isn't really one of them.

Try going veggie, insulate your home, turn the heater down and wear a jumper, share your home with more people, have shorter showers, drive less, use energy saving bulbs, switch the lights off, plant a native tree, eat seasonally, eat locally produced organic produce, avoid fad clothing, avoid flying, ... And most importantly don't have children, the planet is already overpopulated. (As I sit here enjoying my ham sandwich, with the tv on, contemplating whether I am too old or not to try for DC3. )

Bluecollie The thing about animal's ecological footprint was on QI. If Stephen Fry said it, it must be true.

Hamsters apparently have the same footprint as a giant plasma screen TV.

Don't ask how they calculate these things; I haven't a clue.

Point taken about a big carbon footprint in manufacturing disposables. However I still refuse to feel guilty about using them. I have a small flat with no garden that is prone to condensation. Also a small kitchen with no space for a tumble drier just one washer drier which takes ages. Reusables would not be practical. I don't drive though, so maybe I should start a thread urging drivers to feel guilty about the environmental impact of their vehicles.

Gorionine, I think we must have watched the same programme but I've no idea what it was. I think the country was Finland but if it wasn't I bet it was somewhere in Scandinavia.

tulipgrower, I don't buy the "eating meat isn't good for the environment" (although maybe it's because I like it too much!) Most land that British cattle and sheep are kept on is impractical for growing arable. I know the argument applies in some countries but as long as you buy British meat I don't think it does.

Cloth and water is not as easy to use when you have to change a baby out of the home, it just isn't. You need to find warm water and carry the cloths around with you etc. People use wipes because they are incredibly convenient. If they weren't poeple wouldn't use them. I used a cloth and water when I was at home and during the day.

At night when getting up to get warm water was never gonna happen, and when I was out and about, wipes were used. I did use biodegradable ones when I could afford them or find them but not always. I felt a bit guilty about that but not enough to make me change it.

Also re-usables can sometimes (note I said sometimes) be a problem. I know a mother of 4 who used re-usables forh er first three and was pretty evangelical about them. Her fouth child suffered from terrible nappy rash and she found despite her best efforts with re-usables the only think that helped was to used disposables so she switched to them for her fourth baby.

People make choices about their lived that not not always good for the environment. My friend with 4 children is a much more ecologically minded person than me. She had no car for years, cycles evverywhere etc, but she openly admits that her choice to have 4 children was not a "environmentally" good decision but she wanted them so had them anyway. I think that is fine for her and have no problem whatsover with that.

She is also not the sort of person to have a go at me about using disposables and wipes for my only child. I could argue that my only child (even with disposable nappies) trumps anyone with more than one child in the envronmentally friendly stakes but that is a ridiculous argument and I would never make it. What is good for the enviroment is so complicated and I would say that while it is important I wouldn't agree that people should stop having children to ensure

I think the OP has done what loads of us do, which is rationalise our own behaviour as the "way it should be for everyone"

It has been claimed that dog ownership increases carbon footprint - I guess producing meat just to feed dogs isn't necessarily a good use of natural resources, but pet ownership is more than just food - I reckon my 2 hours a day walking probably keeps me fit and healthy etc.

As for cloth nappies, well I was that smug once too. DS1 was fully in cloth until he was potty trained. DS2 however just floods them within minutes, and I don't have the time or energy for extra loads of washing from having to fully change his clothes every time I change his nappy. I try again periodically, but my motivation has waned with my busier life. I don't 'think nothin' of it, but as just about the only thing that goes in our black bin is the nappy bags (and dog waste), I don't think we can be doing too badly on our landfill allocation.

SJisontheway I think the LCA you are referring to was carried out by the people who make pampers. It was flawed because it assumed all washing was carried out at 90 degrees and that all nappies were tumble dried for a ridiculously lengthy time. I would also raise a question mark over how comparable some of the factors are, whilst the energy and water used to wash nappies does involve an environmental impact and the use of resources there are ways of limiting the impact, for example renewable energy, washing machines that have improved energy & water efficiency. The waste mountain from disposable nappies is huge and it just keeps getting bigger, as each child will use around 4000 in their lifetime.

Personally, I think part of being a good parent does involve taking some responsibility for the environmental impact of your family. I want the world in which they grow up in to have enough energy and resources for them to have a comfortable life. That won't be possible if we continue to use non-renewable resources without a thought for what will happen when they run out and create waste and pollution as if there are no consequences. And whilst I agree that preaching to people is not the right way to go about changing people's behaviour I do think that the very defensive reactions that you get from some people does somewhat betray that deep down they know that some of what they are doing doesn't actually make sense IYKWIM.

PlasticLentilWeaver, I think you're right that it's the meat argument against dogs although I'm sure most dog food is a by-product of ours so maybe it's just not true. I also think that environmentally other animals haven't really done the damage we have so why should their numbers be reduced to enable us to continue making a mess? And I include sheep, cows and pigs in that.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found their son flooded reusable nappies. I did use the "if it's not swinging or minging don't change it" mantra to reduce the number of disposables I used and hoped that compensated a little.

Nope. No guilt at all. I don't even recycle. And I don't feel guilty about that either.

Why should I feel guilty?