Eliot - The Waste Land

[DirtyMartini]

Listening to this on Radio 4 just now. Enjoying it, sort of, but troubled in ways I can't quite articulate.

I feel a creeping sense of inadequacy in that, despite being quite bright, I just don't understand how to begin understanding something like this.

What I'm hearing intrigues me, moves me, occasionally makes me scoff a bit. But I feel - despite knowing this feeling is probably silly - that I don't have a right to judge it in any way because it's so revered and so widely analysed by people who must know better than me. I think it is packed with classical allusions I don't recognise, which is a bad starting point.

And yet, surely it's fair to say that everyone's reaction to poetry is valid, so ... I dunno. Maybe all that it takes to appreciate it is just to read/listen and react honestly? I truly don't know. I would like to "get" it but I feel so baffled by it.

Sorry, meant to say ... AIBU to feel this weird conflicted way about a damn poem?

I am by no means thick, but poetry just doesnt do it for me, and never has.

poetry is only relevant if it does what you said

"intrigues me, moves me, makes me scoff a bit"

you have every right to judge

I can quote The Waste Land still - 27 years after studying it at A'Level

I am a bit frightened of poetry because sometimes it gets right past my defenses and affects me strongly when I'm not wanting/expecting to have my feelings churned up.

I never seek it out. When Poetry Please comes on R4, I only listen if I am feeling, well ... up to it. Often end up a bit teary.

But I don't know how to talk about it. Surely you have to understand all the bits about Tiberius and stuff. If I wanted to really "get" it I'd have to swot up on it surely? Or is that just the thinking of an insecure person?

Not unusual - it is a disturbing poem! I just caught part of it and stayed in the car so I could listen to part of it (I mean outside my house insted of going indoors) - the bit where she says something about being old no wonder her huband looking elsewhere, she's been looking old since she took the pills to 'bring it on' only 31, her having had five, and never the same since George etc... (Can't remember exactly how it goes but that bit gets to me especially - it is definitely a poemn to hear performed rather than read!

I think with Eliot you probably do have to swot up to get the classical allusions. That is not a sign of failure in my opinion. If the poet decides to stuff in a load of somewhat obscure (certainly to those of us without the benefit of a classical education) references then yes, we need to look 'em up. No harm done and will probably illuminate the actual poetry-reading experience.

Or ... should I despise him for being a massive old snob and writing only for people with a classical education?

Suspect there is a certain element of that with Eliot actually!

But not many people do have a classical education these days - more common in his day.

Me too - just cant understand most poetry its sounds beautiful and dreamy and I listen, all fascinated, it gets to the end - and I havent a clue what its about!

Me and poetry is summed up with stevie smiths

"Waving not drowning"

Have to surrender laptop to Octonauts now but will bump later - really interested to know what people think.

My edition of the Waste Land comes with (Eliot's own, I think) notes in the back - in other words, nobody was really expected to catch every allusion on the first go through. It bears re-reading after some research. It's a difficult poem and there's a place for that in the world but the number of people today who could read it for the first time and "get" it all is vanishingly small.

Hurry up please, it's time...

what about this for making you feel a bit peculiar?

"I should have been a pair of ragged claws

Scuttling across the floors of silent seas."

The Waste Land is a fantastic poem, but also, as one of my professors pointed out, just Eliot showing how big his willy is. This reading makes it immediately much less intimidating.

(not Wasteland, but I only dare read it when I'm in a very good place)

I did poetry in my A levels and my teacher summed iut up well, its like rap, you don't always get every word but u get the general gist.

Oh, I LOVE Prufrock! Probably my favourite poem ever. Who can't identify with this:

"No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant lord, one that will do
To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad to be of use,

Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed, almost ridiculous?
Almost, at times, the Fool."

This has the notes at the end - all the places Eliot took references from. Not saying it's immediately illuminating or anything, but it's a start!

I think it's great you're having such a visceral reaction to it. That's what poetry is supposed to do. I love Eliot.

I remember studying eliot.

My favourite poem ever is one by wilfred owen.

I can quote it word for word.I love it.

Bent double, like old beggers under sacks,
knock kneed,coughing like hags...

I had such a reaction to it from the first time I read it.

I love the Wasteland but it takes a lot of work to get it. That's the sort of poet Eliot is, I think. But most good poems take a bit of work, I find

I think you should read more poetry - it sounds as though you have a feel for it

I did it for 'A' level.
Got a B.
Still have no idea what is is about.
Never did.

I remember arguing at uni that The Wasteland had its own musicality that transcended the classical allusions and was based in a much more basic oral tradition. My tutor I think basically told me I was an idiot. But I still think it's sort of true. The rhythm and sounds of a poem can move you even if you don't understand it.

Very nice Sshmee.
I'll try that one in work next when I glaze over in a meeting or doing paperwork.

My visceral reaction was there even if I er..... wasn't.