To think these guidelines are a little over the top

[slugz]

Dd(4) has been attending nursery 9-3 each day for over a year. There is no option for hot lunch so I send a packed lunch, usually consisting of sandwich, cereal bar and fruit. I always avoid peanut butter or nutty biscuits as I am aware there are 2 nut-allergic sisters.
There have been no incidents (I've asked) but the nursery now want to change the guidelines to exclude any chance of nut contamination. So I've been asked not to send the cereal bar. OK so it's the sort of thing that might be manufactured in a nutty place, so I'll avoid that.
Only now I'm finding it's very difficult to replace it with anything. I bought some fruit yoghurts, thinking they'd be fine, but according to the packaging it's unsuitable due to the manufacturing process. Cheesy dippers are no good. They want assurances that the bread for sandwiches says on the packaging, completely nut-free, my bread doesn't specify. Any spreads again must be cleared by them as OK. Cheese also.
Now obviously if there's a real risk to a child's health then I will care for the child but I just think that the risks are tiny and the inconvenience enormous. We all live in villages so getting bread from the local shop when you've run out, you're very limited in choice. And to buy in specialist bread for a 4yo who will only eat a few slices before it goes stale is expensive and impractical.
Am I being unreasonable in thinking that a minute chance of cross-contamination in a factory that MAY previously have been used on nut containing products, being eaten by a child in the same room as an allergic child but supervised by carers aware of the problem is a minute risk that's just life.
Once you get down to those sorts of risks isn't it more risky going into a public place where someone may have eaten crunchy nut cornflakes for breakfast, spilt some down their front and then brushed against the wall?

nannynick

'If the children (or adult) with the allergy is not able to have an epi-pen to counteract any allergic reaction, then they should not be in group care'

It's actually really quite hard to get referred for allergy testing where I live, let alone carry epi pens everywhere just in case. Ds has needed epi pens since he was 3 and even now I have tothreaten the GP with storming down to the surgery with a copy of our care plan from Guy's hospitalbe quite firm that we need them. 2 other kids in my ds's class are allergic to nuts and ds is the only one who has an epi pen.

One of the mothers has seen 2 different GP's in an attempt to be referred for proper testing. The GP said ' Yes, sounds like he is allergic to nuts, it will go on his notes, any problems and an ambulance can be with you quickly' FFS!!!!

I would not be happy with ds being somewhere where kids were eating obvious things like peanut butter etc and I have taught ds that if he is sitting next to someone who is, just to get up and move to another seat, not to make a fuss , just do it quietly. School is VERY aware and anytime they have had food tasting from different countries, if they are not sure they have rung me to check.

Although ds is very allergic we DO have nuts in our house and dh and I eat products containing nuts. It is not realistic to cocoon an allergic child and make the environment in which they live 'safe' - I have always wanted to bring ds up to check and double check when he's at friend's houses /parties etc.

One thing dh and I do if we have eaten/handled nuts is to immediately clean our teeth, wash round our mouths and wash hands.

I think the nursery in the OP are terrified of being sued but aren't handling things in a realistic manner. A fruit yoghurt for a child who is NOT allergic should be fine and that IMO is way over the top, just in case the allergic child comes into contact with them!

IMO food that does not have nuts in the ingredients is 'safe' and perfectly reasonable. Ds had such a bad reaction when he was 2 and a half, his face was so swollen he couldn't see for nearly 3 days and I STILL think the OP nursery is handling it wrong.

Sorry , that was a big waffle!

Meant to say - ds allergy is contact and if ingested.

slugz Tescos is the best as far as I am concerned for labelling foods.

Whatever next! you can't take any meat products in case it came anywhere near a vegetarian???

This is just their way of not taking responsibility for adequate food hygiene procedures imo.

Well not quite the same tickety but I agree.

IMO food that does not have nuts in the ingredients is 'safe' and perfectly reasonable.

So glad that you are in agreement that this nursery is handling things wrong. Plus also nice to see that you are teaching your DS to check what others around him are eating and to take avoiding action. You can't wrap children in a bubble, they need to learn themselves what they can't be near, can't eat.

Didn't know what Epi-pens are hard to get hold of. Maybe there needs to be more of a campaign for those and for Free training for staff in childcare/school settings on their correct use rather than all this trying to ban food that might be made in a factory that at some point handled nuts.

Also the allergy sufferers only stay for lunch 2 days a week. They've just said they want the premises to be completely nut free on all days.
This is also unrealistic because it's in the village hall where other groups like brownies meet and also a social club with a bar some evenings. I'm assuming that they probably sell crisps and nuts at the bar too.

Is it run by a committee? If so talk to all members of the committee, not just the manager. Maybe they don't all agree with this new policy.

Thing is niannynick epi pens are not a cure all - there are after affects from using adrenaline so while they are a good back up, they don't always work so staff need to be VERY on top of it and aware and not just have a blanket ban on everything.

It's very hard - I often get very stressy and give myself a headache wondering if ds will kiss someone when he is a teen, who has eaten cruchy nut flakes for breakfast

I struggled just speaking to the manager to be honest. I didn't seem to be able to stress the daftness of it without seeming calous. When someone comes back with the response 'but someone could die' I found it very hard to say 'but it's so inconvenient'. They acted like I didn't care about putting 3&4 year olds at risk.

Someone could die due to the glass in the window. Someone could die for all sorts of reasons. It's about acceptable risk levels. Have they done a risk assessment - ask to see the risk assessment (they may need to remove specific children's names).

Val - agree, if they have a blanket ban then they may become complaicient and not look out for things that could be a risk to the child/children. Epi-pens are not a cure but can prolong life, enough to get medical treatment.

Also ask why they are making this change. Maybe there has been an incident?

They said no incident.
The older child has been attending for about 18 months with no problems, the younger for a good while also.

YANBU. I would be mightily pissed off at having to search out special foods that have never been in any contact with nuts, because of someone else's child.
Selfish? Maybe, but I don't have time to worry about that.

Do you know the parents of the children with the allergy? Could you seek them out and ask them where this has come from?

YANBU and I speak as someone who has a very severely nut allergic child. It's a nightmare buying stuff she can eat, because the kind of nut warnings you describe are on everything. We just ask that nothing is brought in containing nuts. As long as she's not eating it, that's good enough. They may be worried because it's very young to ensure the child never takes a bite of anyone else's food as the child may not yet understand the seriousness of the risk. But it is the nursery's job to ensure that doesn't happen.

Point out that policies like this are actually dangerous to a nut allergic child. Why? Because it lulls the nursery and the child into a false sense of security. Once they start assuming all the food in the nursery is safe, it only takes one parent not to read the packet properly and you have a potential tragedy on your hands. Far, far better to assume anything not brought from home is dangerous and make sure the child is kept away from other children's food.

What a massive over reaction.

If they confiscated my child's foo# I would be going ape shit.

If they want to control the foods eaten then they should be providing a meal.

I would tell them to shove it.

Yanbu

' Point out that policies like this are actually dangerous to a nut allergic child. Why? Because it lulls the nursery and the child into a false sense of security'

I agree :)

Incidently ds has school dinners - I spoke to the kitchen manager before hand and she said nothing she makes contains nuts. Touch wood, we've been fine so far. Perhaps the OP nursery should consider providing food.

I completely understand BodyofEyore - it's not your problem. It's a pain in the arse for me let alone someone whose kid isn't allergic. It's an over reaction from the nursery.

It should be up to the nursery staff to ensure those children don't come into contact with anyone else's food - they're basically trying to put the responsibility onto other parents!

Agree it could actually make the situation more dangerous for the allergy sufferers if the nursery just assume the premises are nut free now so don't feel they have to supervise so closely.

I am a childminder and care for a child twice a week with a nut allergy. All parents have been made aware but I don check every little thing that other children have because I supervise them closely enough to know that there will not be a problem. All foods I supply are nut free and I have an epi pen on site and if children have other snacks with them that is fine.

I think the nursery is being ridiculous. They could feed the allergic children first, clean down and then feed the others. There would be no risk of cross contamination at all. All children should wash their hands before and after food anyway so minimal risk at all times.

Ask for a list of suitable foods or write a letter explaining your concerns

I look after children with severe nut allergies and they go to parties and cafes where there must be things like you mention and they are fine. This seems OTT . We must stop being controlled like this it is getting silly.

No, I don't know the parents of the girls. I have a feeling that someone said they are fostered although I'm not sure. I might be just thinking that it's them because the girls have a very different skin colour to the lady they come with. I'm wondering if this might be an explanation to the over-exuberant rules, if the children are not looked after by their natural parents then maybe they are especially concerned about an incident while in the care of ss.

I have a child with a nut allergy. He is not allowed to eat anything that 'May contain traces of nuts' and tbh this is a right pain but of course we do it to keep him safe.

But whereas he would be at risk if the child sitting next to him opened a bag of ready salted peanuts he most certainly would be at no risk at all from another child eating food that 'may contain traces of nuts' - trace amounts are just that and are rarely present anyway.

One of the first things you teach an allergic child is not to share food, so the nursery should be helping (supervising) the children to ensure this doesn't happen. At ds2's preschool no children are allowed to share food as there are so many dietary restrictions (not just allergic but ethical eg vegetarianism and religious).

~OP YANBU and you should go back to your nursery and discuss this with them 'robustly.' There position is frankly ridiculous.