ExHusband has mental health issues should he see DC

[simplyexcellent]

My Ex husband has been sectioned twice under the mental health act since begining of October 2010 and spent 4 months in hospital under section. I do not know what he has been suffering with he will not allow the Dr to speak to me. The court previously ordered that he see the DC (2 & 7) supervised by the hospital. He is being released on Wednesday so the hospital are now unable to supervise visits and wants to see them every week on his terms. I am worried that the court will allow this. I have a non molestation order, PSO and Occupation order in place, he is agressive towards me. Anyone have expereince of this, what do you think the judge will decide.... thanks for your help xxx

No idea, but I do not see why you should agree to it unless you can have some idea of what he was sectioned for.

I doubt the judge will enforce it either so if it ends up being up to you YANBU to say no, under the circumstances. You need more info to say the least!

Can you contact social services to see what they can advise?

I am not an expert, but I would have thought under the circumstances, only a supervised visit would be allowed.

Social services are not interested as they see that the children are being well cared for by me....

btw what does YANBU stand for - I am new to mums net lol

I would ensure that if there is to be any contact, then it would have to be supervised if he is likely to be aggressive or unpredictable in his behaviour, then at least he has to behave himself if he wants to see his children.

He told me this evening that I am not telling him where and when he can SEE HIS KIDS. Really dont know what to do, now that he is being released it makes the court order worthless...... Can't afford a lawyer - are there any on line who can give me some guidance?

What about Cafcass, have you involved them?

(YANBU is an abbreviation of You Are Not Being Unreasonable)

If you can't afford a lawyer, are you definitely not eligible for public funding (legal aid)?

If the Court previously made an Order, presumably he made the application and therefore will need to make a further application and you can go and act 'in person' to explain to the Court your concerns (and perhaps ask for a CAFCASS officer to be appointed to do a full investigation). Although be prepared for that to take some time, depending on your location, as resources in CAFCASS were extremely short when I last worked in the area (about 6 months ago before I left UK)

Until such time as a further Order is in place (and I am certain it would be one that requires the contact be supervised especially as there have been recent injunction orders), then I think YANBU to suspend Contact because it is not in the interests of your children to be put into a potentially risky situation.

If the father was being reasonable, he would agree to a period of supervision to allay your potential concerns in light of a recent sectioning and Court order requiring supervised visits.

I think you should go and get a free half hour consult at a local family lawyer. They will give you some basic info and peace of mind (hopefully) that will stop you fearing the worst. They may even give you some advice about acting for yourself, if this is what is required.

I just reread your post and your injunction orders are current, yes? Assuming they are orders that may prohibit him from coming within a certain distance of the children as well as you? I know that seems contradictory to the recent Contact order and I can't remember if it is possible to have the two running side by side with supervised contact and then terms in the non-mol order. If this is the case and the contact order has now lapsed, then it would be a breach of the non-mol order for him to see children anyway and in a practical sense, he would be breaching the non-mol if he had to collect them from you or you drop them off to him, if you see what I mean.

I fear I am going round in circles typing my incoherent thoughts as they come to mind.

I hope you can get things sorted and do try for the free half hour consult. Also, am sure there is something on the HMCS website about how to proceed if you are a litigant in person and unrepresented. Additionally, his Solicitor is obliged to communicate with you if you contact them and say you are acting for yourself. Assume he still has a family lawyer? Depending on the person, they may be useful too. Obviously, they represent his interests but everyone in family law proceedings i obliged first and foremost to act in the interests of the children.......keep trying to get information and speak to Court/legal professionals who are free of charge. Try CAFCASS website too, they might have information on there for parents without Solicitors.

Just re-read your post a further time (I have 8 week old in bed 'napping' and am rushing as sure she will wake up!) and I see you are looking for advice as to what Judge will order.

my advice would be:

a) Stay really calm and collected in all your dealings with ex. If he has lawyer, tell him you need to be communicating with his lawyer and not him directly. His Solicitor should then write to you with your ex's proposed course of action. DON'T be bullied into anything and if you don't agree, then he will be forced to set up a court hearing which you will then attend.

If he persists texting / calling, he may be in breach of one of the injunction orders. If you think this is the case, contact the Court office and ask for details of how to proceed with a potential breach (explain you are acting in person). Keep a written record of texts/voicemails/calls if they are persistant and/or abusive/unpleasant.

b)Continually remind yourself that the Judge will be thinking about keeping the children safe, first and foremost, just as you are. Experts will be involved if need be, to inform the judge if he/she needs opinion on this.

c)Make sure the school are aware of the Orders and current situation with your ex being released in case he tries to collect them from school. This sounds obvious but just think how to protect them, in a calm and rational manner (I know this is hard!)

Good luck and I'll try to check back to see how you're going although am limited usually with posting time.

Oh! Been there done that.

As you have an existing court order, only another court order can override it so you do not HAVE to do anything. However, if your children WANT to see him (don't know how old they are) and there was an existing contact order in place BEFORE he was sectioned then the courts will probably change things so that continues albeit with certain restrictions if neccessary.

You have several choices...

Get a solicitor if you don't already have one

Become a litigant in person and fill in the form for an application to change a contact order with the courts

Keep out of the courts and do your own supervised access until you are happy

Important things to think about re the above option is "does he have PR?" "Was he seeing them alone before he was sectioned?"

Courts generally like to go back to how things were but you can most definitely ask the court for a psychiatric report to be done on him before contact takes place, the courts can also order the involvement of CAFCASS and you can tell them your worries.

Be very aware that if you are not publicly funded the report will cost YOU. If he is publicly funded it will be half each.

Be very aware that the odds are stacked against you if there was an existing court order in place and the children do still want to see him.

The hospital have released him so therefore he is not mentally unwell anymore.

There are going to be many bitter pills to swallow along the way for you, just try your very best to keep yourself out of the equation (especially if Cafcass are involved) and do your best for your children. Sometimes this means doing things you don't want to do and sometimes it means protecting them and not giving them what they want. Only you know your situation.

Good Luck, it's been a mare here for quite some time now.

Hiya before he was sectioned he was too paranoid to see them he felt that it was a trap so no contact before he was sectioned. Have had a lawyer, have no money left not and will not get public funding. He is being respresented by the offical solicitor has he does not have capacity. Do you think the court will allow unsupervised access without medical records. He has spent 4 months in hosp and is now under care in the community. It is all new to me and I am terrified for me and the childrens safety.
Many thanks xx

Contact fathers need families, contrary to their name, they asides mums too. They can advise about self representation and a mckenzies friend.

Forensic phsychiatric assessment......this is what I had in court. My ex was same as yours with MH/suicide/hospitalisation. This report showed everything and medical records revealed too. Cafcass also involved.

Ex got zero contact.

He has agreed to supervised contact every other sat in a contact centre for 2 hours where I will get a report from the centre. He is NOT happy about it but has agreed He also agreed to reduce the amount of calls he makes to the house from every night to twice a week and every other saturday (when he doesnt see them). A step in the right direction. So that is in place til we go back to court on 13 April!
I feel a bit happier with all of that. Will contact fathers need families tomorrow. thank you all for your advice. xxx

Bear in mind contact centres are only meant as a temporary measure, and everyone will be keen to move on out of them asap.

simplyexcellent when you posted on here on the 2nd Jan, I thought you said that he has a personality disorder and also that he is paranoid schizophrenia. Have the hospital changed their diagnosis now?

I don't know what is wrong with him. The two have been mentioned but hospitals are reluctant to diagnise. I personally think either of the two, but I learnt from the contact centre today that he had a psycotic episode...... he may never be labled but I doubt he will ever tell me anyway and wont allow the Dr's to talk to me.

What will happen in the future in term sof contact? Anyone have any ideas? sorry about my poor spelling lol

I remember from your previos thread, you said he got the children up at silly o'clock in the morning and drove them to Legoland having had hardly any sleep. that sounds like a manic episode, some bi-polar/manic depressives will act like this when they are on an 'up'. I know of one who didn't sleep for days then would get abusive with those close around them as their brain was just too wored with no rest.
Agree to get cafcass involved.

Sorry, wired, no sleep babybrain here.

Yes took DC to legoland at 4am and nailed all the doors shut so I couldnt get in the house. What will happen longer term will he have unsupervised contact do you think?

Did you manage to get CAFCASS involved?

Did you talk to MIND or the Police?

Don't think anyone can second guess for you what's going to happen as every case is very different.

Police are aware. MIND were no use at all.... Cafcass haven't been involved yet, the judge hasn't requested this as yet.... what a mess!

When you go to court for the contact order he or his solicitor will say what they are looking for i.e what contact he wants, if you don't agree to this and can't come to an agreement you are both happy with the court will order a further hearing date and should get CAFCASS to visit both you and him and talk to the children possibly too, you can go through your concerns with them and they can choose to involve social services if they wish, social services can be involved on either parents side so just because they are happy with how you look after them doesn't mean they won't think they are at risk if they have non supervised access with him.
CAFCASS will colate all the information and will make a recommendation to the court at the second hearing as to what they feel is in the kids best interest, the judge will usually make a ruling based on that and any other evidence.
You should be able to request that his medical history is made known to you as it directly affrects the care your children receive,
Once a contact order is in place you can be penalised quite hard for breaking it so its important you make sure you involve as many people like social services as you can at the early stages, it would be worth a call to them to explain your concerns and ask what they recommend
Good luck

0844 353 3350
Telephone number for CAFCASS, worth a call for some advice even if the Judge hasn't involved them yet

Social Services are not interested as they consider me to be a good mother and the children are not at risk, dispite his attempts to make me out to be a scummy mummy to the rest of the world!

We were told that they could view both parents seperately if seperated, i.e mum might be great and no worries there but if Dad is an issue and the kids have unsupervised contact they may be considered at risk there. Our social services would then work with you and the courts to make sure the kids were protected while with him, or deem him unsuitable to be unsupervised with them, these is a local contact centre where kids go to visit parents and are supervised by social sevices throughout the visit, I thought you would have the same system locally but may be area specific?

I just came back to this thread. I wouldn't imagine anybody will be ordering anything if he has the official solicitor and is deemed not to be capable. You may find this battle starts when he is deemed to be capable.

However in the meantime, don't sit back (as if!) and do research, find out everything you can.

My ex had a psychotic episode. I now have a court order that will let any treating psychiatrist or doctor talk to me about his illness so I can make my own decision about the children having contact. It doesn't need my ex's permission.

Judge said I was perfectly capable of deciding what was best for my children!