to think it serves them right

[Kitsichick]

,,,mostly Andy Gray- he seems most upset that he was caught not that he did it and hints at 'dark forces!' presumably his own stupidity. As a woman who has worked most of her life in a male dominated industry it is true that twenty five years ago this would have been seen as a 'joke' and the woman told to 'get over it love'.

One colleague of mine in an Ad agency was on the phone when one of the male directors- back from a liquid lunch, stuck his hand RIGHT up her skirt and INSIDE her knickers while muttering 'lets stroke little pussy'!

I was AGHAST - she and I were both 25. I felt she should have slapped him, reported him and gone to the police. She stood on his foot hard and said 'get off me' without even interrupting her phone call. I was even more horrified at that as she was a newly married Indian girl I had always thought of as quite shy.

She later told me she oculdn't possibly report it as it would have brought shame on her family. I made sure every time we gave him a cup of tea from then on- one of us spat in it. I know its childish but it made me feel better for her.

So I am GLAD companies seem to no longer tolerate this sort of blokey nehaviour which is actully bullying apart from anything else.
But some of my friends feel he was 'just joking' and should be let off. What do other people think? What kind of working world do you want for your kids?

He was suspended for the female lineswoman comments (which had it stopped at a single joke/remark may have been quite harsh, but it wasnt it was continued and reached far beyond the initial joke)

He was fired after he was repeatedly caught making sexist and derogatory remarks. Including asking a female presenter to tuck his microphone into his trousers~complete with gestures.

All of the above are completely unacceptable. However sky seem to be taking it a step too far and undermining the principle by suspending a guy who said the lineswoman was said to be "a bit of a looker"

JBellingham They were at work, in what is meant to be a professional environment. While at work you are meant to act professionally, while working (especially as something like a presenter) you are the face of the company, and should be representing it in a positive way. Eg. by not making sexist comments.

Also you are forgetting, I doubt that the 2 presenters were the only ones in the room at the time. So do the opinions of the other staff there at the time not matter? Suggesting that women cannot work in sport wont be offensive to women working alongside them?

This isn't thought crime. They opened their mouths and made offensive comments knowing it was unacceptable.

I'd have been happy to see him sacked for the supposedly private remark about the female linesman - that sort of attitude cause a hostile environment and shows his ignorance on a subject he should be an expert on.

But the bit about his treatment of the female reporter makes my blood boil. There was nothing funny in it. What would have been funny would be rubbing his face in dog shit everyday at work and when he didn't laugh about it saying "oh dear, bit poo faced today aren't we?" About time some of the misogynistic BS in the broadcasting industry got pulled. It's a bit too little too late though.

Wasn't he done for molestation in his footballing days too?

No sympathy here I'm afraid (unlike dh ) yes he was a great, very funny pundit when talking about the game. He had a great job and fucked it up by repeatedly being a twat. Lesson learnt I hope.

well there's a couple of seperate incidents.
The comments about the lineswoman firstly. He was not sacked for these, and in my opinion that is probably about right from a legal perspective.
The comment/action towards his co-presenter, this is what he has been officially sacked for and rightly so. A clear cut case of sexual harrassment and most likely a micro-sphere of his whole professional attitude.

The dark forces reference was actually Keys and are most likely to do with the fact that it appears that sky wanted rid of Gray and a large amount of the footage which incriminates him has been leaked internally. Gray is already suing the parent company.
Also an official apology was made by Keys and Gray to the match official which sky convinced them to sit on rather than publishing these facts which some are suggesting shows that they were waiting to leak the further videos as otherwise they would have pushed the apology agenda if Sky were looking for damage limitation and to find a way to keep them both employed.

Delighted they're both gone either way, but your OP seems to be jumbling the issues/people involved together.

hope no one on here leers at the firemen and their hoses

"However sky seem to be taking it a step too far and undermining the principle by suspending a guy who said the lineswoman was said to be "a bit of a looker""

Agree with that completely. If that footage is the only thing being used against Andy Burton then I think he's being dragged into the whole thing needlessly.

Well said, Mozette.

Unfortunately JBellingham, if you're having a "private" conversation of that ilk, then you had better damn well make sure it is actually private. Somebody eavesdropping is not a defence for having been caught out airing said moronic views.

I'm really glad they've gone.

I hate football, have no interest and nor does anyone in my house (hooray!). I didn't know those two guys even existed before this and when I heard this on the news I thought it was typical of the people involved in the game and no change there (got sick of the attitude to women when I was 18 and turned my back on it completely - that was over 30yrs ago); so the whole thing has shown football in a very bad light, strengthened my view that the people involved in it are vile and ignorant.

I am very glad Sky have sacked them as it tells people like me - who are prejudiced against the game in the first place - that it is improving.

Didnt the comments go out live then?

If it was a private conversation then it should have been dealt with internally via the HR department.

As far as I can glean from the BBC it was said before the match off air. Dunno about all this other trouser malarky and sexist stuff, only read about the comments about the assistant referee.

well that's nice and closed minded of you jux.

slightly off main topic, but still relevant (in my mind anyway) I would like to know if Sky Sports are planning on having a rethink about their Saturday morning football programme which has young women in v short shorts and has male audience members going 'whoohhooo' and other such nonesense in the background if, as the man on the news reported yesterday that there is a real change in football and these things (Andy Grey type remarks/sexism/etc) are no longer going to be tolerated?

Soccer AM (while being a terrible show) has the angle of being tongue in cheek but it also may well be saved by the fact that it was one of the first main stream football shows to have a female host.

There are extreeme views on this from both sides but in my opinion there is a line between banter and offensiveness and a slight grey area which surrounds that line.

~ the linesman is a woman, he says she is a bit of a looker = banter

~ women dont uderstand the offside rule, someone better go explain it to her= banter approaching grey area

~ there wil be a big mistake tonight because the official is a woman = crossing the line but could be forgiven if an appology is made

~ asking a woman to tuck it in will you love, while gesturing down his troousers = so far over the line the line is not even in sight!

~ calling a woman "it" talking about "smashing it" and "hanging out of it" in WORKPLACE, whether broadcast or not it is still a place of work = well over the line and off into the distance again.

This is not about picking on a bit of banter it is about inexcusable beghaviour and attitude in a place of work!

isn't it just?

From what I can gather they've both been complete sexist aresholes for years so someone probably managed to set this incident up to get rid of them.
The OP's story of the young Indian girl was really dreadful - hope you managed a few juicy grobs in his coffee!!

had this discussion in my entirely male office on my last day before leaving for maternity leave (which got heated and brought me back to doing sexism in my entirely male politics a-level class) and while a lot of them agreed there was no problem with a lines women, they didn't agree with Grays sacking. My personal opinion is they just don't understand what it feels like to be the Victim of sexism. If they weren't sacked for sexism, I would sack them for their stupidity and saying such thoughtless things while wearing a mic and on camera

It was Richard Keys who was talking about "dark forces."