to think that health and safety never really went mad?

[jaggythistle]

...maybe just some people's interpretations did?

in my experience companies, institutions or whatever type of premises set their own rules based on h&s law and guidelines. the way things are done seem to vary hugely between different companies in the industry i work in anyway.

the other side of it i suppose is the headline happy tabloids, convincing their readers about all the things you can't do 'these days'. this also encourages fear of litigation, which drives over zealous rules. a bit of a vicious circle it seems.

i think that reducing accidents is a pretty good aim, and for the most part the 'gone mad' tag is a bit ott.

i am also puzzled by 'you wouldn't be allowed to do there days'. surely sounds like a good thing?

AIBU?

Yes and no. The fact that someone can successfully sue mcdonalds for the coffee being to hot, or a building company for an injury sustained by someone breaking into site is H and S gone mad.

However, Health and Safety regulations do have a great place and do what they are supposed to in preventing accidents. Some people are over zealous in how the interpret what is and isn't allowed though which is what generally leads to people believe that "H and S has gone mad"

Occasionally I have heard someone from the Health and Safety Executive (or whatever they are called0 interviewed on the Today programme and they always sound eminently sensible. All of the really wacky H&S stories in the papers have nothing to do with the official guidline they are, as you say, individual interpretations of it.

Presumably these cases are fuelled by fear of being sued, but I wonder how realistic that fear is.

For instance, before Christmas my FIL and BIL were trotting out the line about if you clear the snow off the path outside your house and someone slips and hurts themselves then you could be held responsible. AFAIK that is nonesense, it has never happened and never could.

I was amused at work, though, when there was a company wide email referring us to the H&S implications of putting up Christmas Trees!

YANBU, a waitress who used to work in the restaurant i managed was wearing high heels despite being told not to and fell over and hurt her hip. she tried to sue (unsuccessfully) i used to do all the H&S and COSHH training for the chain and after the "dont drink bleach" "dont put your hand in the mincer" talks I used to look at them all and say "this isnt rocket science, its common sense. to work in and around kitchens you need to have some. If you think its ok to jump up behind a chef while he's carving or leave a spillage lying around or stick your foot out as a chef is carrying stock pots around, i suggest you leave now. catering is obviously not for you"

In my view its gone mad when its stops people doing perfectly sensible things that they used to be able to do, regardless of whether its an actual H&S guideline or an employers interpretation of it, simply because there are things no longer being done because of it.

Not being allowed to give my colleague a couple of my paracetamol when she has a really bad headache but instead our team leader (who overheard me say "sure, I've got a couple you can have") making her walk 15 minutes to Boots with said headache to buy her own, whilst a different person again covered her work, etc, is H&S gone mad in my book.

It might be the Team Leader who is wrong not H&S, but its the H&S culture thing that caused her to react in that way.

That's one example but there are countless others.

Health and Safelty like Data Protection are excuses often used by people who do not actually have a clue what they mean.

Oh we can't do that for H and S/ D P reasons. Not our fault gov.........

Haalth and Safety as protection for those working in the construction industry say can only be for the good.

I think we are treated as if we are simpletons a lot of the time lately.

I bought a packet of frozen salmon fillets

On the box, next to the pretty photo of a pink salmon fillet was "warning: allergy advice - contains fish"

I would be a bit pissed off if it didnt... I know people have to protect themselves from idiots who like to sue these days.. but this really is a waste of ink...

why would you need a warning there was fish in a box that contained fish.. if you couldnt read the fact it was a piece of salmon.. you wouldnt be able to read that it contained fish, and if you were too dumb to know that a salmon is a fish, found in the frozen fish section of the freezers with a photo of a fishy on the box.... well.. you shouldnt be allowed out really

Tatty imo that's your team leader being stupid, not h&s, which was in fact my point.

It's not the H&S culture. It's the "do stupid things and sue everyone" culture. It's to do with all the stupid adverts on tv, you know, "I wore sandals in a factory and hurt my foot! I want compensation!". The actual H&S people just make sure that no-one has unsafe working conditions, which is surely a good thing.

www.hse.gov.uk/myth/

Here's their site showing all the stuff people blame on them which is nothing to do with them :)

bubbleagain, I'm counting that as packaging designer/paranoid company solicitors gone mad, not h&s. that is the point of the op.

As a first aider at my old job, we were not allowed to give out headache tablets, or keep them in the first aid box. If you needed painkillers you could ask anyone else for them, but not the first aider.

I worked for local government for a while, and it was astounding, the list of ridiculous things that you couldnt do.

The most pathetic "rules" in my opinion are the school ones which say teachers cannot put plasters on children, or comfort them if they fall, or administer sun cream. Then we move onto ball games being banned, skipping banned, conkers banned, snowballs banned.

It must be so stifling to grow up these days in such a sterile protected environment.

H&S only went mad after 'No Win No Fee' lawyers came to the fore and people got greedy. They are the reason why we are now not allowed to take children to school when there has been 5mm of snow, why a packet of peanuts contain warnings that the product may contain nuts and why adverts for alcohol now say 'be drink aware'. It is because of greedy people or people with no common sense and the lawyers getting them loadsa money for 'accidentally' tripping on a paving stone.

I have no problem with people who injure themselves through the neglect of others claiming compensation, just think it should be a realistic amount and not awarded for unavoidable instances.

I think it's the way Health and Safety is administered OP so I agree with you.

Schools have often hit the headlines because of ridiculous situations - famous one springs to mind from a couple of years ago when an Headmaster banned conkers in the playground unless the pupils wore safety goggles just in case the conkers broke and "had someone's eye out".

Mostly H&S is just common sense apart from specialist areas e.g. laboratory chemicals where correct labelling and storage has to be monitored or trade workshops where dangerous machinery needs to be operated by properly trained staff etc. etc.

a headmaster obviously

The problem is when you have parents threatening to sue a school if there little angel falls over in the snow then schools will keep all children in to protect themselves. Madness but understandable.

It seems you can no longer have an accident, someone always has to be to blame and that someone is never the person injured. (or if you believe the accident ads anyway) One of them said something along the lines of "An accident is an injury that is someone elses fault" strangest definition I have come across.

X-post - bubblewrapped already mentioned conkers!!

What a weird definition - so if you were out for a walk in the forest and you tripped on a tree root it wouldn't be an accident 'cos it wasn't anyone's fault!?

I went to an NHS baby massage class recently. When I explained that I was a little late because I'd wrongly gone to the big meeting room where the classes were held when I had my first child, the leader explained that they had been stopped from using that room because it meant people were carrying babies upstairs. Because as everybody knows, when you get pregnant you either move to a bungalow or install a dumb-waiter

but none of these things are health and safety regulations or guidelines. they are decisions made, probably by a manager somewhere. they may think they are doing the right thing, or may believe that they could be sued.

can you tell that i object to the phrase 'health and safety gone mad' quite a lot?

not sure what happened to my punctuation there, going to blame my phone.

thank you rinabean that's exactly it. do something stupid or think you can get some money, better get suing.

Conkers were almost banned in my triplets' primary school. Not through health and safety, but because my darling sons ran a roaring trade in selling them to other pupils.

Sometimes you have to meet people with absolutely no common sense to appreciate the need for H&S regulations.

e.g. Someone who questions why they have to wear a hard hat in an area where building works and roof repairs are being carried out. Someone who puts a plastic bag on a chair to keep the fabric clean and then tries to climb onto it in only their socks.

However, I do think that some people in bureauracies who don't really understand H&S sometimes use it to justify laziness.

For example, I know an independent midwife who was acting as birth partner to a lady in a local hospital a couple of years ago. The woman wanted to use the birth pool but was told by medical staff that she couldn't because the light bulb had gone, it was night time so there were no service staff around to replace it and H&S meant that they weren't allowed to do it themselves. The midwife found a store cupboard, helped herself to a lightbulb, screwed it into the socket and the hospital staff grudgingly decamped to the birth pool room...

sounds about right toga

i have seen some things that made me go

i do work in an industry with quite a lot of hazards of various types.

maybe if you work in an office and have an ott manager it all seems a bit silly!

I think it is a combination of sue happy people and a lack of common sense.

But I also think there is an element of regulating all the fun out of life. No conkers? No roundabouts in playgrounds? I am amazed that the play area I take my son to actually has stuff that you can climb on! What's childhood without a few bumps and bruises?!?!