to thinkthat there are lots of people nowadays who don't seem to have life/communicatiion skills?

[PatPending]

Just musing about life ..... (e.g. MN posts)
For example, people who want to tackle schools, nurseries etc. and defend their DCs.
People who can't seem to negotiate the workplace politics?
People who can't communicate with their partners?

Is this new? Or am I deluded? It's just that my perception is that my generation just "got on with it"?
Nobody complained to schools in my day.
If you had a job you just had to take the rough with the smooth(not saying that's right but it was how it used to work).
Couples just "got on with it" and muddled through .... this is one area where I think things are definitely better now.

Am I viewing things through rosy-tinted glasses?
Could we go back to some things that were better?

Just musing really!!

I just think we have an idea nowadays that .. "It's all someone else's fault"?

oh yes - youre post about happy parents in a happy marriage reminds me (I tend to not think of this stuff these days unless it comes up in conversation - bogged me down for too long to have it there are the front). My parents marriage wasn't happy. They pretended it was for a few years, then it fell to pieces, and my dad walked out (or my mum threw him out - I'm not sure which tbh). He begged to come back and she let him "for the children" (and as I now realise as an adult who's going through a divorce and see her reaction - to "do the right thing"). Worst bloody decision she could have made.

They had some marriage counselling, the rows all stopped for a ltitle while.........and then they started again......and even though my brother and I have long since left home - they still argue. It's still not a happy marriage. My dad is now my mum's carer - she relies on him - but she said to me a few years ago (before they stopped talking to me) that if she didn't need to think about her future she'd have left him. (funny then that she doesn't think I should have left my exH )

Beautiful post baroque.

Honestly, that was beautiful.

I just googled it, and no, I don't think I'm an expert.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1381571.ece

I agree Laurie that the same shit always happens in each generation. However the way that people deal with it, and the way that society "allows" people to deal with it has (thankfully IMO) changed.

Piss off Shirley... I have as much right to an opinion as anyone else.

I see a nation of over-protective neurotic parents, too scared to let their children learn any life skills, and teaching them that its never their fault.

Yes, some things in life have improved, but many have taken a step backwards.

ouch! bubble, your wit is rapier sharp this evening.

I see a nation of parents living normal lives and caring for their kids. You see Daily Mail headlines.

I think you should

a) calm down a bit and not tell me to piss off

and

b) educate yourself using something other than the daily tabloids

and

c) piss off yourself

I am sure the various indices of 'happiness' have changed overthe years. I too am someone 'schooled' in the 60'/70's and corporal punishment was standard, and it beat lots of things out of children who didn't 'fit in'.

I would unhappily maime anyone who raised a hand or object to dd. Her experience is totally differnt and better than mine.

Jump ship early? No, for reasons already said. People have more choices these days than ever, starting with control over reporduction massivley via the Pill in teh 60's onwards.

Go back to all of that poo. Never.

And I think you should lose your condescending attitude dear.

I am quite calm, and have no need to rely on tabloids to supplement my education.

You know nothing about me, so I suggest you keep your ill-informed opinion to yourself.

Isn't it funny as you grow older, and start to see things more clearly how you can look back and see the wood for the trees?

History repeated itself with my brother as for my mum - she was "thick" at school, my brother (in the early 1990's) was "stupid" (both descriptions used by teachers in the schools). As by that stage my brother had failed most of his GSCE's my parents were happy to let the school run with that.

My maternal grandparents were in a bad marriage, my mother is still in a poor relationship, (I think also my paternal grandparents marriage was a bit shit - I know there are step siblings but I've never known the full story as they both died before I was born so little talked about them). I ended up in a shit marriage. Only "knowing my human rights" (and MN ) helped me get out of that.

My dad I know was very unhappy in many of his jobs, but put up with it (perhaps that's what caused his stress, grumpyness, angry - thankfully non-violent - outbursts). My brother because he was "stupid" didn't know how to deal with serious issues at work, and eventually walked out, with severe depression

I was a little luckier, I wasn't thick or stupid, I had a slightly better education and when I ended up in a job where I was used as the scapegoat knew my rights and was able to at least keep on top of the situation and not be mistreated in the same way my brother was.

Thank you Michael Winner.

like I said bubble - I'd rather have the over protective neurotic parents (that really don't exist that exntensively) than have a nation of children entering into adult life with major issues having been left to stand up for themselves.

Hell - adult life throws enough crap at you without having to sort out crap from childhood as well.

bubble - have only read your last message, but Ithink you are being too harsh on people. We have LOTS of people ino our communities with serious well-being issues, and are a danger to themselves and others, and there is no assistance, until they do something awful.

well said Pan there btw - and thank you Shirley - I'm flattered

apologies for my ramblings,kind of struct a few chords and I got carried away

it was a tonic to read Baroque - a reminder to be grateful for how we live now, albeit imperfectly, compared with all of that.

Oh! Baroque - great post, really interesting.
I guess I'm a bit naive really..... my parents had/have a really happy marriage, I have a really happy marriage.
I'm not daft, honestly, and I know this is not how it is for others (abusive marriages aside) ..... but a small part of me wonders about some marriages where couples have "given up"?
I don't know ..... guess I'm past my sell by date!!
I also reckon I gave my DCs guidance along the lines of .... "If you do this/break that rule/ you will have to bear the consequences etc. etc. ...... I will admit that I told them (when they were being bullied) "You can hit back if you want but be prepared to take the consequences". This was because the school didn't do anything.
Honestly ... I'm not trying to offend I'm just comimg at society from and old hag's point of view!!

Baroque - you ramble away all you like - I love your posts!!

oh I agree there will be some where they've given up at the first hurdle, or when the first glimpse of the mundaneness of married life kicks in. But I honestly believes that is a really small minority.

Very few (if any?) with children just "give up" I think without real cause or without real though. It's hard, stressful, sometimes even shameful still. Sometimes even parents/family that once appeared as they would support you no matter shock you and abandon you once it happens. Perhaps because very people give out all the details of how their marriage came to that point in the first place? Even people that can come acrosss as very "open" about their private lives will often withhold details, or will only talk about it once things have reached a certain point. The "build up" isn't often talked about. So the whole picture is never seen.

And lots of couples do talk to each other, or go for marriage counselling and manage to carry on - and have happy marriages.

And for those that do just "give up" before children........perhaps that's actually better? If they're going to fall at the first hurdle (as you say leaving aside relationships were abuse in any form is present) it's not really going to get any better once children come along - and not going to be good for the children either.

I wonder if of those that do "give up" the issue isn't so much the not trying, but perhaps the "rushing in" to the marriage in the first place?

very few that should read. I really will head off to bed shortly my - just having a last coffee.

I think there is a lot in us not taking time out in reflecting what we want out of life, and 'reacting' to what society, and especially the consumerist element of that, says we should be wanting. Without sounding overly grand, it's the lack of 'spirituality' for people - and I DON'T mean religion at all. I mean listening to themselves properly.

Without that bit, perhaps people DO rush in without being careful about whether it will contribute to their happiness in the longer term.

yes - that's very true. I know I have only recently started to think carefully about what I want. The things that will make me happy, I suppose I have in the past almost been "swept along" by societies expectations.

Just another vague tired thought, I wonder whether the "neurotic/overprotective parenting" that appears to display itself more often now is a sort of reaction to the "stand up for yourself" years gone by? I wonder how many of those seemingly over protective parents had experiences similar to mine. And now in the era of society on the whole accepting that some of this stuff shouldn't be swept under the carpet, and realising the effects their childhood had on them.

And because they now know their "rights" are realising that quite often they were treated appalling (I know that written down my "story" seems quite bad - but I know there are many others that had it much much worse) and are fighting to make sure that history doesn't repeat itself once again and what seems like helicopter/over protective/neurotic parenting is actually them still reeling with issues from their childhood, and just desperate for their own children not to go through the same?

I know that I am sometimes over protective and a little neurotic - although I'm hoping that because I know I'm those things, and because I know that things are not the same now in schools (or at home for my children) as it was for me I'm not too bad most of the time.

This stuff about how soceity changes fascinates me. I started a course last year (had to give up temporarily due to personal reasons) and the first part of it was talking about childhood, what it is, how it's changed etc.

It's amazing how it's changed - I can't remember the exact year - but it was around 1950, a report was done for the government about the sending children in care off to Australia and the like. We had a copy of part of that article in the course book, and it basically said "it would be much better, cheaper and easier just to pack these children in care off to Australia" - so they carried on doing that until 1967!!

Could you imagine the outcry today if a report was published that said - look we need to make savings in the budget - lets send all the children currently in care off toe Australia/America/wherever because it'll make so much easier/cheaper for us!!