What the hell is going on with our country and the vulnerable.

[upahill]

AIBU to think what is going on where the vulnerable,poor weak ,old and sick are getting picked on the government?

I have been following posts about Riven's plight and others and I shake my head in dispair.

I always believed you can judge a society on how it treats it's vulnerable and I'm afraid our society isn't that great at the moment.

Guess I'm feeling a bit down because I know that the Riven's case isn't unique. In the past when I worked with Social Services I have worked with older people, children with learning disablities, and also adults with learning disablities and their carers.

I left a few years ago but I have watched day centres where famlies could get a couple of hours respite shut down.

In an office where I worked there was a person who had to go out and look at how he could cut services from people. To make things worse it was like something to celebrate when he got services taken away from people.

You know when you see bankers on tv cheering when they make a deal and there is a lot of high fives going on, well this is what it was like. It was distressing to see. The bloke was about 23 years old at the time, perfect health and not a care in the world apart from girlfriend trouble. Glad I left.

Just a ramble but I'm a bit pissed off!

Don't blame the Tories - they are only clearing up the mess from Labour. And, BTW, I got NO help whatsoever from Labour Government for my son who gets DLA, and Labour were in for 13 years!!!

I was just talking to my mum on the phone about all this that hit the papers today. We were saying that the government (any government but the more right wing the government the more they seem to attack the vulnerable) seem to want to make it as hard and as humiliating as possible for disabled people to get help. Possibly so we'll shut up and fuck off and that's how the money will be saved.

I said to my mum that it seems like they feel that the solution to the Disabled Problem is the gas chamber.

Which I know is dramatic but it's how it feels. It really is. Treated like shit, like a burden, like a lesser human being. And now to be forced to beg for everything you need? personal independence payment = go on your knees cap in hand to social services who will assess you and decide whether you may or may not have any particular item and when you may have it. How demeaning. I really think that disabled people are a problem that the governments wish would disappear.

Who was it who said that a society would ultimately be judged by how it treated its most vulnerable members?

It's just so shit. And frightening. If they carry on like this, take the little help and support we get now away, make it more difficult and more demeaning - people are going to die. I mean it. Those cases of people driven to the edge - they'll happen more and more.

I feel the same Hecate, seems like you always have to justify having a disability.. which is just weird. When trying to get help they seem to approach it from an angle of "we believe you are lying, now prove otherwise"

Hecate
What's been taken away exactly ? I thought the issue was that it was still the same ?

I said "If they carry on like this, take the little help and support we get now away..."

the whole point is the 'reforms' - with the aim of cutting costs by 20% (by reducing fraud which according to them is 1% )

They are looking for ways to reduce the amount of help we get.

I understand that costs have to be cut. But there is massive MASSIVE waste in government. They should start there. Not identify the easy target.

Do you have any idea how much they could save just by looking at themselves? their reports, their 'fact finding missions', their perks...

How much were they spending on a survey which aimed to prove that money doesn't make you happy? a million? more?

Make cuts in the right places.

I agree there is massive waste in government. I don't think anyone would disagree. Except the unions that is. Why shouldn't a bin man in Birmingham earn £50k ?

Then there are the non jobs that the last government created.

Whole departments of local government that have sick rates of 40%.

Tax credits also. Rather than employ thousands to take money away and then give it back incorrectly and then take it away again, why not just tax less at lower levels of income.

But Fio and Hecate i would like to know exactly what in this instance has actually been cut ?

Well, my sons' SALT for a start.

DLA when renewed - people are finding that they apparently no longer need the same level of help. Find the thread about the 15 year old boy who apparently doesn't have mobility problems. He uses a wheelchair.

It's getting harder and harder to get respite. Not that it was ever easy.

But it's not about what HAS been cut. A slice here a slice there - it's happening.

It's about what they are proposing. When it's done it's too late! We need to get angry about it NOW. At the planning stage. What's the point in waiting until they've changed the system in ways we KNOW are going to hurt us and then talking about it? We need to stop them.

But of course, to do that, they need to give a flying fuck about us...

awbubble....

Loads of things have already gone or are going to be stopped.

Day centres for Adults with Learning Disability have been shut down,

A resource centre where 'vulnerable' older people went has been shut down.

This has meant a saving on buildings, staff, transport, catering and other costs but has cost people their bit of independance in many cases.

Care packages have been reduced so people only get the bare minimum of care so that the council can still say that they offer support services.

These are the only ones on the top of my head. There will be many many more examples that have an accumlative effect of making people's lives shit!

I dont think the Tories have yet done anything to the disabled benefits, they are proposing some changes but they have not yet been approved. Rivens situation appears to have been the same when Labour were in so not sure why the Tories are getting blamed for it.

OP, not sure why you feel people are being picked on. We have a welfare system that looks after those you cant support themselves, DLA is paid as a seperate benefit to cover extras a person may need and HB allows people a roof over their heads. Compared to many countries we have it well and there is no true poverty in this country.

no true poverty?

You're kidding, right?

Homeless people are pretty poor.

So are pensioners who die of cold because they can't afford the heating.

And people who run out of electric because they can't afford to put any money on the meter.

And people who can't afford to run the heating.

And people who skip meals because there's only enough food in the house for the kids.

There most certainly is true poverty in this country.

Just because very few people are destitute doesn't mean there aren't people living in poverty.

Councils house people, may not be the place they want etc but they do - even if a bb/hostel.

Pensioners get a grant every winter for heating.

Those with children get very gernous benefits, I doubt many cannot afford food - they may need to look at their spending priorities if so. Or rethink working etc.

There may be people on low income, but a life on benefits can actually net more than working.

Poverty is realative, whilst we have a system that provides shelter, money for food and heat and free education then we are not a country that should be considered in poverty.

Someone is walking around with her head up her arse.

That's funny, because who are all those people sleeping rough then? The system does NOT provide shelter. It sometimes provides shelter. For some. They don't house everyone. There isn't enough accomodation. Unless you are a high priority you can wait years and years and never get to the top of the list. I've worked for the housing dept in a council. I know! There are people without homes. Who sleep in doorways. Are you saying otherwise?

Grants do not cover the cost of running your heating through the whole winter. And if you are struggling on a small pension then you may need to use some of that money to pay other bills. There are many wealthy pensioners yes, but there are very many really struggling.

Ha. I've been there. Both as a child when my mum skipped meals because there wasn't enough food, and we hid behind the sofa from the rent man and my dad went to work with holes in his shoes - to the parent whose business went under and had to feed a whole family, plus household cleaners, toiletries etc on £25 a week. my god. you have no clue, do you?

I mean, I don't know what else to say. What can you say to someone who thinks that there are no people sleeping rough because councils have a place for everyone.

To me, poverty is when you can't pay your bills, you struggle to buy enough food or have to skip some meals, you can't afford to put the heating on...

Happymummy you have never had to rely on benefits to survive have you? Because the benefits that people receive are pretty scant if the truth be told, and you can bet your sweet ass that these stereotypical chavs who do nothing while having the latest of everything are up to their eyeballs in debt with catalogues and those horrible stores you get in town where they give you credit without references and you end up paying twice the price in interest. Either that, or they are involved in crime to pay for their luxuries.

The rest of us struggle on with whatever it takes to get by. They do go without so their kids are fed, they DO leaving the heating off to save money and they do live in poverty.

You see your income go up by a few pennies each year, literally perhaps 20p or something, while your gas and electric bills go up by tens of pounds, food prices rise in line with fuel hikes and basic essentials become further and further out of reach. That is the reality.

I don't drink or smoke, and I don't do drugs, but I have struggled to survive before, cutting back on anything and everything to make sure that my kids have a roof over their heads, clothes and food.

Generous benefits - you must be off your head!

HappyMummy just try applying for a council house, they hand it to you on a plate Even if you have no home, even if you are having to rely on friends letting you sleep on their floors. Even if you are on the street. Even the wait for b&b's/hostels is huge.

awubble - What has been cut? The qualifying criteria for DLA for starters. Up until July last year I was in receipt of DLA on the basis of me having uncontrolled epilepsy, and having on average a seizure a week (52 ave. in a year). In July, I filled in my renewal form to be told I no longer qualified for DLA as you have to have on average 2 seizures a week (or 104 ave. per yr). Has my disability changed? NO. Have the extra costs associated with my disability changed? NO. Am I any more able to get anyone to employ me than I was before July last year? NO. YET I NO LONGER RECEIVE ANY DLA. I AM STILL DISABLED.

You can't tell me that nothing's been cut when I'm bloody living it every day!

Redbridge council in London will take about 30 years to clear it's housing waiting list...

Poverty my arse

The Coalition Government has been in power for a mere 9 months.

The vast majority of what passes for public service in this country (good or bad) is the way it is thanks to the previous Labour Government.

Not that the Labour trolls on here would acknowledge that, of course.

Few posts ago but SEXY ???!!!!

Can honestly say that is the first time I have seen DC described as anything other than a smirking, condom headed buffoon !

FioFio - I do apologise...I thought it was now commonplace on MN to label anyone a troll that disagrees with you.

I jest, of course.

On the more serious point, it may be that services need to be 'improved', as you put it...but surely there is a debate to be had over whether Government is the right provider for ALL services.

There is a fear (perhaps understandable in some areas) that introducing private money/provision will harm services but, let's remember, 30 years ago it was the Government that provided your phone line, your water, your gas.

If you flew BA, it was the Government that provided you a seat on an aircraft; if you bought a Rolls Royce, it was the Government that had produced your car!

In all these areas, private money has come in, reduced inefficiencies, improved productivity and improved the level of service.