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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

All those clever SAHM who feel undervalued

74 replies

jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 10:21

I've put in AIBU for attention.

Perhaps I should let the dust settle over the Riven story but...

I just want to say that there are lots of amazing, clever, savvy women on here and yet we have thread after thread about people feeling useless and how our talents, lives are going to waste.

The Riven story demonstrates the immense responsibility of Local Governments and the power they have to change lives.

When the time arises I want to ask all of you out there to consider standing as Councillors. Only then will we have a chance of getting the society we want. It will be tough and time-consuming but I see a lot of people on here with better ideas and a damn sight more humanity than many of the local politicians I've encountered.

That's all really.

OP posts:
Original poster
jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 23:12

I would never say that being elected is easy. It isn't however impossible and it's well within the capability of many people with the right attitude Smile

OP posts:
TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 21/01/2011 10:01

True.... it's just I like the idea of being a councillor, but the process of getting there, with the leaflet-printing, pavement-pounding, doorstepping, local-paper-schmoozing (with the obligatory photo of you picking up litter/painting over graffiti)... not so much!

BootyMum · 21/01/2011 13:11

Agree with lifeinlimbo. How is it that "men's work" is valued so much more highly than "women's work"?

Why are tube drivers [predominantly men] paid £45,000 a year after 16 weeks training and nurses/midwives [predominantly women] are paid £20,000 after a 3 year university degree?

Sorry OP, I know this off the original topic but it just makes me so cross!!!

Instead of attacking SAHMs and their choices why are we not focusing on the inequality of pay for important roles in society seemingly based on whether men or women do them and how they are then valued [or not] in a monetary sense? Not all of us want to be captains of industry Xenia but us women deserve to be more highly valued for the roles we play in society!!!

[And Booty now steps off her soapbox..]

duchesse · 21/01/2011 15:12

I think it's because we are prepared to accept less for our skills quite frankly. Because centuries of male rule have brain washed us into believing we are not good enough. Xenia's right, the only way for us to gain true equality is by stopping doing "women's jobs" and instead gain true equality in traditional "male jobs". Women's salaries are all too often still seen as pin money (even mine in our house Blush, although I pay 2/3 sets of school fees) while the man is seen as doing the "proper" job. It makes me mad. It makes me madder still that I chose to opt out of corporate life (and that was a choice I made at a certain time of my life). But, I would never have had the chutzpa that Xenia had to not break even financially for several years when the children were small. That would have probably sent me into nervous breakdown to be frank.

tholeon · 21/01/2011 15:28

surely you can be a feminist and believe that looking after children & other caring roles are extremely important ones?

Women don't all have to adopt the traditional male role, do they? The caring role, whoever performs it, needs to be valued, both within the family and within the wider society.

My husband works long hours in a city job. I stay at home with our toddler. He earns the cash, I don't. But we are both equal within the family.

BootyMum · 21/01/2011 15:32

So is doing a "women's job" such as midwifery not good enough then? No wonder midwives are generally demoralised and there is a crisis in staffing levels...

I understand what you are saying duchesse and you are probably right that only by working in the traditionally male dominated professions will women be valued and financially compensated accordingly.

However I just feel it's very sad and frustrating that because a role is seen as women's work it is thought to be relatively worthless.

LadyTremaine · 21/01/2011 15:33

Have no undersatnding of why this was aimed at SAHMs... I get the point about MN members running for council etc and it's a good one.. but why the sahms Confused

Oh and I heart Xenia - your bloody mindedness and strength of conviction is an inspirration.

LadyTremaine · 21/01/2011 15:36

I think the point is, if we did live in an equal society then women could 'choose' to stay at home looking after the kids etc but as we do not we need to strive to move away from these roles so that one day future generations of women can make these choices without them having an impact on how society values women as a whole.

vagolaJahooli · 21/01/2011 15:37

Sadly attitudes like Xenias are what are the biggest problem with our society. But I guess my attitude would confuse someone like Xenia. I chose my career path because I enjoy it and I want to make a change to people lives. But not because of the amount or money get paid. I managed large budgets and workforces, and dealt with situations which would make most make males quiver. But it paid me a fraction of what men in similar locate sector positions would be paid. I have taken a break from it to look after my kids, live in another country with my family, and study. I definitely don't see what I do as worthless, and sadly I think people like Xenia are an example of how out of touch so many people are with society. Sorry Xenia but you are a bit sad, and definitely dull, but I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

On the councillor front, my mother is 65 and became a shire councillor (Australia) 10years ago. She finds is simultaneously rewarding and a nightmare. But I don't think she would ever have changed the last 10 years. She has facilitated more change and societal influence than any BP manager, certainly done a lot less damage.

Xenia · 21/01/2011 15:38

yes but cuchesse that is a very very sexist comment y ou make. It is never a question of a woman not breaking even. Both parents pay for childcare. We each paid 50% of our net salaries towards a daily nanny and I was so sure I could earn a lot over 40 years that it didn't seem much of a risk.

As LadyT says perhaps for the next 30 years we need to ensure if anyone is at home unpaid it is 100% men until women get much much more money and power and only then slacken off and make "choices" to be unpaid and unappreciated and in lesser subservient dull unpaid roles.

LadyTremaine · 21/01/2011 15:38

What I also don't understand is that if couple are 'equal' regardless of which one earns th ecash/ looks after the kids etc... why is it 99% the woman that does this.. How many SAHMs can honestly say that when they were pregnant it was not the assumption that if one parent was going to be a SAHP, it would be them?

vagolaJahooli · 21/01/2011 15:39

Sorry that should have been 'private', not locate. Damn phone.

LadyTremaine · 21/01/2011 15:41

Yes... and I would put money on the fact that once those generations had passed - women wouldn't be making those 'choices' anyway.

geordieminx · 21/01/2011 15:42

I heart Xenia Blush

tholeon · 21/01/2011 15:42

I think that if society valued caring more - not just of the young, but of the sick, the old, the disabled, then that would also do a lot to improve how women are seen, as they do the majority of the caring.

It is not only the traditionally male attributes that matter.

tholeon · 21/01/2011 15:44

I would much prefer to be at home with my son that to do what my husband does every day. Or what I did before I had my child. Honestly. We are not all the same.

sherby · 21/01/2011 15:49

god I heart Xenia too

vagolaJahooli · 21/01/2011 15:49

"It is not only the traditional male attributes that matter"

Here here. I hope Xenia has a better attitude towards the women and men who wipe the dribble from her mouth in years to come. Caring and nurturing may not be something that comes naturally to everyone but its also something necessary to our community.

duchesse · 21/01/2011 15:50

My point is that at the time even with both of us working we could not have afforded to have childcare for our 3 small ones. I gave up going out to work, he concentrated on his career and he has got the stage where he a lot better remunerated for what he does (although certainly not by your standards- he is a research scientist which is notoriously poorly paid). Had he had to dash home mid afternoon to take over childcare he could still be earning under £20,000/year. He loved his job, I did not have any idea what I wanted to do, so it seemed a no-brainer at the time. I shall be advising my 3 daughters very differently.

sherby · 21/01/2011 15:50

All those silly girls who want to be Jordan when they grow up should be shut in a room with her and not leave until they want to be the prime minister

duchesse · 21/01/2011 15:51

vagola- the point is that once women stop accepting to do these jobs for very very low pay, and take jobs that are commensurate with their intelligence and education, then men will also have to do what are traditionally "female" jobs at the moment. fwiw my first baby was "caught" by a male midwife. I don't think you have to have a vagina to be a good midwife- he was superlative.

Mishy1234 · 21/01/2011 15:51

Xenia- I see what you're saying. However, I'm simply not the same person I was before having children. I don't have the same desire to excel that I had before. I'm not a SAHM btw, but have backed as far out of the limelight as I can (to still earn what I have to). I have no desire to be stuck in a meeting in another country when my children are ill or need me. I have the utmost respect for those that can do it though.

LadyTremaine · 21/01/2011 15:53

sherby I'd pay her good money for an hour with my DSD...!

Mishy1234 · 21/01/2011 15:54

Just to clarify. I'm definitely NOT saying that those who do have high profile jobs are not good Mothers. I'm just saying that I can't do both. As it is, I feel I'm just breaking even in both roles (not doing a very good job at either tbh).

duchesse · 21/01/2011 16:01

Xenia, you should seriously consider doing talks to schools on careers for women. I wish I'd met someone like you when I was in my teens.

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