to expect ofsted to look into this as a matter of urgency

[herhonesty]

i dont normally post in here, usually lurk around property and paint colours etc, but here goes.

i was on a train yesterday and overheard two girls who worked at a local nursery discussing a girl who was on a trial period. they said she hadnt had her crb check through and it wasnt right that she was working with children until this had come through.

its been worrying me a lot. i have my own daughter at nursery (not this one) and would want anyone who works their to have been checked properly.

so i rang ofsted this lunch time and told them what i heard. they basically said that unless i could verify whether or not the person in question was working directly with children and in what capapcity, they probably would not investigate.

I pointed out that i wasnt in the position to ask (given i was eavesdropping, yes i know that is wrong too so i hardly have the moral high ground) but that given people who worked at the nursery had said it was wrong, and presumably they knew the rules, that it was worth investigating. she sounded very slopey shouldered and said in a very offhand manner "oh well i'll tell the duty office and then its up to her what to do".

I am being unreasonable to have expected them to have taken this a little more seriously? is there anything else i can do?

sorry should have written "there"

They take a while to come through. Why didn't you raise it with the nursery manager? They may have made arrangements so that she is not working alone with any children until the CRB is returned. I understand it's a potentially serious situation, but I think contacting Ofsted without going through any other routes first is a bit of an over-reaction.

A trial period is quite a good idea and crb checks are expensive.
I would think that the girl is never in a position whereby she isn't supervised.

Can't imagine anyone taking second hand unconfirmed information overheard on a train too seriously.

If you have major concerns, go and ask the nursery directly and see what they say.

Remember, a crb check is not immunity against abuse and also by not having one, it doesn't mean you are an abuser.

you overheard a bit of gossip, how can you expect them to take you seriously when you have no proof?

ring the nursery in question and speak to the manager, then if you are still concerned contact ofsted with more evidence

YABVU. Children are allowed to be in the same room as people that have not been CRB checked. New staff and work experience do it all the time.

People aren't allowed to be left alone with children without a CRB, so no nappy changes or help with toileting.

Otherwise every parent that was ever allowed in to help would have to be CRB checked.

it wasnt second hand. me telling you what i heard on the train and you telling ofsted would be second hand.

alternatively, I could just tell the parents that i know who have children there. i am sure they'll sleep happily tonight.

You did the right thing op.

The nursery should have a risk assessment in place for her, and she should not be left unsupervised with children, but other than that she should be ok.

I wouldn't expect Ofsted to investigate it as a matter of urgency.

Of course it was second hand information. First hand would have been the staff on the train telling OFSTED.

Either way, it's ridiculous to assume this person is left alone with the children when you have no real idea.

it may be that she has a crb from another agency, guides, brownies other nursery etc, and is waiting for the one from her current employer to come through. If she is on work experience she won't need one, depending on her age. And as others have said if she is constantly supervised there is no reason why she can't be in the nursery.

tbh with the other problems that people here have had with nurseries recently, I should imagine someone without a CRB isn't really OFSTED's top priority.

You heard some gossip so now you want to start scaremongering the parents

YABVU

The CRB only works if the person has been caught before.

If the person is a perv and has not been caught yet then the CRB is irrelivant.

What exactly did you hear OP? I find it hard to believe that the people that work in a nursery would have said it was wrong that she wasn't CRB checked for any other reason than it meant they had to do her share of toileting duty.

They will know the rules, and the rule is not that everyoe who walkis through the door has to be CRB checked. If you think your dc has never seen anyone without a CRB during her time at nursery, you are probably wrong. But your dd will be supervised by someone with a CRB at all times.

By the way VinegarTits i love your name. How did that one come about?

i rub vinegar into my breasts daily, keeps em pert

I worked in anursery when I first moved here. I already had 4 CRBs, all issued by OFSTED, but had to wait for another one to come through. However, i was still allowed to work with the children, just never ever unsupervised, so I couldn't toilet or nappy change or be left alone with them

lol and i thought that your milk had turned.

I understand your concerns, but a CRB usually takes a minimum of 28 days. However I've known them to take unto 3 months. It's simply not reasonable to ask a potential employee to remain unemployed for this length of time.

There are very strict ratios in early years. Would it be preferable that the nursery gave notice to 4 or 5 families as they were short staffed while waiting for a CRB?

As others have mentioned, staff can work without a CRB as long as they remain supervised and the CRB has been applied for.

The quicker timescale is one reason I supported the introduction of the Independant Safeguarding Authority, however mass media scaremongering seems to have put paid to that initiative.

As others have said it could be that the girl in question has existing crb checks for alternative settings it is just that she hasn't yet had the one for the current nursery come through.

At the school I work in it is common practice for new teaching assistants etc to start work whilst waiting for the paperwork to come through but they are never left alone with students (then again no member of staff is) and have to shadow other members of the department in the mean time.

It causes a huge amount of problems as they can take up to 5 months for them to be issued.

Be realistic, would you apply for a job 5 months in advance knowing that you couldn't start straight away? Would you recruit this way? It makes much more sense for any training/learning on the job to be done in this time.

I can guarantee that the nursery bosses will be super careful that she is never left alone with any little ones to cover their own backs as much as anything.

Not sure you're being unreasonable, maybe just a little paranoid. Do all of your family and friends have enhanced CRB disclosures???

I should think every nursery has staff working whose CRBs aren't through yet!

So long as they are always supervised it's fine.

look, stop attacking me, i'm just a parent trying to do the right thing by other parents.

i'm not stupid. of course i realise that not all people who work in a nursery or any childcare setting are crb'ed up to the hilt. and fwiw i am school governor and i do understand the crb system, its complexities and failings.

quite honestly, if members of staff of a particular nursery are voicing concern that a particular a member of staff is working with children and hasnt the appropriate checks in place then yes, i think thats quite serious, as i would expect them to understand the rules that are in place aroudn supervision etc and from what they said, these rules were potentially being broken.

It could be that they didn't like her,and were moaning about her. if they said "oh she's left on her own with children and she's not CRB checked" then yes you are right to be concerned. if they said "Oh she works there but can't do the toileting because she's not CRB checked, that's not fair" then I think it was annoyance that they had to do the toiletting all the time

If Ofsted did take it on to investigate, based on what you heard all they would do is write to the owner of the nursery and ask whether they have any staff that aren't CRB checked yet and whether they are left unsupervised. It is the responsibility of the registered provider of the nursery to ensure their staff have checks done, and as many other people have said you can start at a nursery while your CRB is ongoing as long as you aren't left unsupervised with children. The only time nursery workers are unsupervised is nappy changes so it's not too difficult to keep someone else with them!