in choosing the vibrant, multicultural Surestart day nursery in favour of the joyless private prep school...

[badcoverversion]

I visited both today and my 2.10yo DS bawled when leaving the Surestart group. I don't blame him TBH, there was just so much to get involved in...from playdough to paints and super sized lego, a vast array of books and computer games and outdoor grounds fit for the most intrepid and inquisitive mini explorer (bird baths, pet snails, tree stumps, gazebos, tents!)

I found the prep school oddly soulless and disorganised. There were very few activities laid out at child level and the outdoor area consisted of a couple of rubber tires and some empty crates (WTF?)

It was the little things that got me though...
In the Surestart nursery the children were encouraged to serve themselves fresh water from a nearby cooler and they have access to the outdoors at all times...the Nursery workers seemed enthusiastic and my LO was casually encouraged to count and talk as he played. At the prep school I was told that children must ask for drinks and be served them...and they were allowed to go outside, weather permitting...like a bit of rain or wind ever harmed a wee one!? The staff also seemed to be going through the motions and rarely engaged with the kiddies.

I know Surestart in general gets a bad rap on many of these forums so I suppose I'm just fishing for a bit of encouragement (re: my current stance) and feedback from your own experiences. I take my DS to Surestart 'play and stay' type groups on a regular basis and I've never had any issues...but leaving them on there own for a few hours a day, well it's another area altogether really.

BTW, between this and the last topic I created here it kind of seems like I'm trying to initiate class wars a-go-go...not the case but apologies if it seems that way.

scottishmummy - by prep school I assume the OP is referring to an independent (private) primary school. Some of these have preschool sections attached to them.

thanks,i use nursery never heard that called prep school

We don't have Surestart nurseries up here in Scotland (unless I've missed them!) - what are they?

@pinkthechaffinch and badcoverversion

Being of multicultural descent myself and not having "brown skin" I find the idea that multiculturalism denotes people with "brown skin" incredibly offensive. The fact that someone read multiculturalism and jumped to the term "brown skin" is incredibly ignorant. I don't know if I am making my point clearly enough as articulating the feelings behind why I am writing this is a little difficult, but some serious ignorance has been shown on this thread. My child is also going to be of further multi-ethnic descent and the idea of him or her being called "brown skinned" as an identifier of his or her multi cultural heritage is outrages in my eyes.

oh get off your high horse LDN mummy

I am the mother of a mixed race child and I fail to see how referring him as 'brown skinned' is offensive.

Descriptive, yes.

Less offensive, than being called black, which denies his white heritage.

I agree that 'multicultural' could (and indeed should' refer to all possible shades of skin tone, but I believe the OP clearly meant it to infer that the Surestart centre is used by non-white families, thus also being 'vibrant' , which is what I found patronising.

Only people who know my son well, will know that he is half Welsh and half Sierra Leonean. Many will simply describe him as being of mixed race. He calls himself a' light brown boy'. I find it offensive that you find it offensive tbh !

Of course you choose the nursery you like best and which would suit your child.

What do want? A medal? A parenting award? A warm glow of righteousness?

hmmm don't quite understand why everyone is being so nasty maybe i'm missing something.

I took my child out his preschool as neither of us liked it and took him to a surestart instead which we both loved! The only downside was a few people at toddler groups etc made a few comments when I told them where he went as the area it was in had a bad reputation.

Our little boy loves his Surestart Nursery and has done really well there; we're both very, very happy with it. The staff are brilliant and the facilities top notch, with a great outdoor play area that includes a biodome type greenhouse with lots of plants that the children go into to have stories read to them. Completely brilliant and 10/10.

Sure Start nurseries are great because they have better resources and pay their staff much better than private nurseries.

Personally I think there should be a much bigger state sector in childcare/nursery.

I work for SureStart (not in the nursery though), there is no job for me In April, along with lots of others. We're half expecting the centre to shut down soon, the other centres in the area are in the same position.

I'd check and ask them how stable they think they are.

OP, YANBU, except about the empty crates, empty crates are loads of fun and used in lots of nurseries.

@thepinkchaffinch

I wasn't talking about your child and how you refer to him on an individual basis. I don't think referring to a person as being brown skinned or black is particularly offensive in itself if they have no objection to it. As I said, I am of mixed heritage including African, European and Arabic and I was raised within the African community.

I also agree with the idea that the OP was coming across as very patronising and I think she has been made well aware of that. But you using the term "brown people" outrightly to refer to multicultural people is no different than during the colonial period when the term "little Englishmen" was used to identify the mass of colonized Indian's. It dehumanizes anyone who is identified as falling under it as an umbrella term. In this way it also strips away an individuals sense of heritage and identity and places them in a mass of people who's only identifying trait is thier "brown skin". I am African, but I am not sierra leonian for instance. My childs brown skin and your childs brown skin does not mean they are multicultural in the same way. In the African community many organizations are trying to help push past the idea that skin tone is of the utmost relevance in one's identity. Because of colonialism we are left, especially in the "diaspora", with a generation of African/ Carribean people who know very little about thier cultural heritage and can only identify thier background by the tone of thier skin. This is partially because colonialism has systematically created a colour system in which a persons social worth and identity is decided by how light or dark skinned they are and this has overshadowed everything else. Of course people vary in skin tone and as human beings we get an immediate sense of what someone is like from thier appearance. But as it stands, by referring to people as ?brown skinned? you contribute to creating a sense of ?the other? (an ?us? and ?them? situation) through the dehumanizing effect of such a general term; that is why I took offence. What I am trying to say is put across much more clearly in Edward Said?s theory of Orientalism or Hybridity theory. I am not trying in any way to flex my pretentious intellectual muscle here and I am not on a high horse, I have just experienced first hand the repurcussions of these social issues.

The term multicultural does refer to all people of the world, whatever skin tone you are or place you are from, including England and the European states. What I mean in short is that if society is to progress past race issues, the tone of someones skin should be irrelevant (this does not mean pretending that everyone is the same colour, just that it should not be an issue), you coming into a public forum such as this one and using the term ?brown people? is not helpful. If you are being sarcastic then make that clearer. The impact of someone?s lexical choice on anothers understanding of what is socially acceptable is far more significant than people realize at times.

Im sorry for my essay long response, to fully answer you would have probably taken ten times this space as this is a massive social issue in my opinion and I hope I was coherent (doubtful but I tried my best to explain my point of view).