Is my brother BU about Duke of Edinburgh scheme?

[seeker]

My dd and my dn are in Year 10 at the same school. Dd is a "joiner" - choir, form captain, first in the queue to volunteer for open evening - a bit of a Chalet School-type goodie goodie, if I'm honest. And a keen Scout outside school as well. Dn isn't - goes to school, does her work and goes home again - has no desire to be Dimsie of the Fourth!
The all applied for DofE this year - 28 places, 39 applicants. Dd gets a place, dn doesn't.

I discovered today that db is seriously pissed off about this - thinks the school was 'unimaginative" in its choices -and particularly thinks that Scouts should be barred from applying for D of E. Is he right? Should I be a bit apologetic?

dn has had (I would hazard a guess) several opportunities over a few years to prove hersef.

DofE is not a walk in the park. it takes dedication, and perseverance. and it is a total PITA if you have someone on your expedition who doesn't pull their weight (speaking form bitter experience!)

dn has (form info given) shown no inclinaiton to do any of the activities needed for DofE before. and the places are limited (sad fact, but a fact nonetheless - you cannot magic up funds or volunteers)

so, do you give the place to someone who is likely to stay the course, or to someone who may well have only applied "because everyone is", and could welldrop out?

It is a very demanding process which tests a wide range of aptitudes. The people who lead, mentor and test the participants are all investing a lot of time and effort. So if I was picking members of my guide unit to get the opportunity, I'd pick whoever had demonstrated the right attitude and qualities.

Good luck to your DD, who sounds like she deserves every opportunity she has opened up for herself.

My DD has just joined Air cadets she is in year 9 at school, the air cadets do part of the DofE (it is a choice, she doesn't have to do the DofE) and the other part has to be filled in by school. It is the same in our area for anyone who is in any of the Cadet troupes or the Scouts, Guides etc. The school only have a set number of spaces but priority is given to those who are in a group out of school who have already started the award.

"But how does someone get to prove themselves if they're never given the chance."

I think I agree with you, tyler - why should the jolly hockey sticks officer class types get all the breaks?

Dn isn't a reserved, retiring girl - she just isn't into "the Honour of the School" type stuff.

Not every one who wants to can do D of E simply because there are not enough members of staff for more that 7 teams of 7.

Why doesn't your DN join a local open group but ask if her name can be put on the waiting list at school. So if anyone drops out (I'd be surprised if no one did!) she will be able to fill their slot and more importantly would have already started her award.
It is a shame that numbers are restricted at their school. It really is only the expedition section that is affected by numbers. The other sections are usually done independently. If she really is keen there are ways round it.

Don't think about doing 'something else' just to appease your brother. In addition to the general benefits of doing the DofE, it will look wonderful on a UCAS form. Other schemes may be less recognisable.

I've been on a holiday that would have met the requirements for the residential aspect of the gold award so I'm not so sure I'd agree that it's a very demanding process. Very much more a box ticking exercise for middle class kids, requiring considerable financial input.

But that's not the point of the thread.

I think your brother is unreasonable to be annoyed at you over this, but I think he can think the school is unreasonable for not having a lottery based system.

It does require some staying power though ,especially after the bronze

DS had all the other points covered, and evidence to prove it. It shocked him when the organiser said 'I'll see what I can do to sort a group for you' and then did bugger all.
First time he'd been lied to by an adult, threw him to the point that when his scout group was joining up a year later, he wouldn't enter because he hated D of E.
He's still a scout, and involved in charity work and an adventure sport.
He just won't get a bit of paper saying so.
As I said, not inclusive. Only those worth bothering about get picked, and their worth is determined by the volunteers that run the scheme.

I think the way the choices seem to have been made was just inside of the bounds of being acceptable. I can understand your DB being upset if his take on the matter is that those who are routinely selected to take part in school activities were selected over those who don't always take part, as it would make DofE seem like a reward, and I'm not sure if should be treated as such. In that case, it would seem the school have 'falsely' opened applications up to everybody with no intention of allowing everybody an equal chance to take part IYGWIM.

You shouldn't be apologetic, your DD had as much right as anyone else to apply, but I do get why your DB is annoyed with the school. "Unimaginative" is actually a good way to put it.

tyler80 I think that is a rather unfair description of the D of E award. Yes you can pay money to achieve the sections but equally you don't have to. My DC have done all the awards and we have not paid to complete activities. They have done swimming, photography, visiting old people, helping the bronze participants - all accessible activities. We did have to buy boots for the expedition.
Holidays do count for the residential part as the emphasis is staying away with people you don't know and generally learning something. It can also be a volunteer week for a charity - minimal cost there.
I agree ggirl staying power is vital and that is why it is good for CVs.

So is your brother planning to volunteer as a leader?

It does seem that you can do it via the Scouts, so I suppose he has a point, but really, I don't think anyone should be excluded from applying via their school.

I agree with the earlier poster that dn should join the Scouts or one of the other orgs that do it, if she is keen.

And he should be talking to his daughter about how to achieve the aim even though she's had a setback - isn't that much more of a DoE thing than to complain about the setup?

"Yes you can pay money to achieve the sections but equally you don't have to"

But this is what I think is wrong about it, it shouldn't be either you work hard or pay money, it should be you have to work hard whatever.

I know quite a few teenagers who have done the gold award straight away without doing the bronze and silver because it takes less time.

Tyler I did the Queen's Guide Award, which is equivalent to D of E gold and it's still the most challenging thing I've done. I did find some of the sections easier than others but overall it's not for the fainthearted. The holiday element might not have challenged you, but that's just one part of it.

What do the two girls think about it all seeker?

Your dbro is bu in blaming you/dd for hsi daughter not getting a place and you do not haveot apologise for someone else's decision or discourage your dd from applying for whatever suits her. However as parent to a child who at 12 has already not been included in such stuff, also having no inclination towards scouts etc) I have some sympathy if he had hoped this might be the time she gets an opportunity and yet it goes to the predictable ones, again.

tyler - I think she meant that you can pay money to do an activity but there are also activities you can do for free. You still have to work hard to achieve the section whether you pay for the activity or not :)

you/your dd have nothing to feel bad about seeker. if your dn is suddenly feeling that she needs something else, then there are multiple opportunities for this at her school (or scouts). tell your db to either help his dd by getting her involved in something, or to stop bloody moaning.

I have done and got all 3 D of E awards i started off doing my bronze in the sea cadets.

When my 6th form opened it up i continued with my silver there aswell as at cadets. The school were glad to have people doing it that had experiance doing it through an outside organisation. On our expedition i was the only one who had done anything like it before and it showed.

Tyler80 people shouldnt be allowed to join at gold level as that. Goes against the principles of D of E its hardly working towards something by starting at the bottom is it.

Seeker tell your dd to enjoy the experiance it is one i will never forget.

I think it is a 'wake up call' for your brother. DN will need things to go on a CV and the person chosen will be those who make an effort to join things, better themselves, help the community, put it how you will. This will be needed for the personal statement on the Ucas form, getting a part time job or anything you care to name.
Either she starts thinking of it now or she puts up with the fact hat she will be overlooked for others. It is life I am afraid.