To be astounded that we have to pay for braces?!

[toothyname]

(regular with name change!)

My step daughter has just gone to the orthodontics and has been told she needs braces but that NHS wont pay as it's cosmetic.. The cost is over £2000! Has anyone got any experience of this or succesfully challenged it..? Surely good teeth can't be the privilage of wealthy children..??

Woo hoo, finally genes are going to count for something again. I have big breasts and perfect teeth. In this day and age they count for little due to cosmetic trickery. If it is just cosmetic improvement and in no way life threatening then £2000 is a lot of money to ask for. YABU

I think the conditions under which they will be given free braces have to be pretty severe. dd is 10 and has a 1cm overbite and the dentist/orthodontist said there was no way we would need to pay for her, her teeth are all over the place due to thumbsucking and just a mess, so it is needed healthwise.

ds however has a very cute straight smile but a large gap. This I wouldn't consider to qualify for free braces.

Having grown up with wonky teeth myself I know well how it can affect a child psychologically, getting mine sorted was so good for how I saw myself. I hate it that dd has to wait now because in the waiting time she is so self conscious and gets teased etc.

I do think that children with obviously crooked teeth should get the treatment for free.

It's crazy. DS1 got braces on the NHS with no wait, but it seems that I have to pay £500 for a crown for DS2's chipped front tooth

haven't read all of this thread but dd 2 had braces fitted a year ago free of charge on NHS

LadyTremaine, DD and the other children at the workshop all qualified for free treatment as their teeth have been graded at the level where our NHS trust (not sure if this varies from trust to trust) deems treatment necessary and provide it free. In DD's case it is because she has a bad overbite with an 11mm gap that will apparently worsen as her tongue pushes into the gap at the front of her mouth to seal it when eating and drinking and her teeth are apparently at risk of damage as they stick out so much. As a result she'll need a functional appliance followed by fixed for a total of 3 years plus headgear at night.

OP - Look around. There are orthodontists out there who are benevolent when it comes to applying the criteria. Ask around in the playground, and go hunt them down.

Ds has just qualified for free braces, from a kindly orthodontist. I am breathing a huge sigh of relief.

I had terrible, dreadful teeth and I wasnt taken to the dentist as a child. My teeth were very over crowded and the top ones stuck out horribly.

It was painful as there was no room in my mouth to accomadate any wisdom teeth coming through. I never smiled and my eye contact was poor. I kept my hand over my mouth when I spoke. As Riven has mentioned, they were very hard to clean and were in pretty bad shape all round.

Consequently I gave the impression of being unfriendly and miserable. It severely affected my self esteem and contributed to bad choices I made. I know that may sound a tenuous link but if you think you are terribly ugly you tend to be far less choosy and take what is given IYSWIM.

When I was in my 30s a long forgotten savings plan matured and I was able to get braces. My teeth are by no means perfect but compared to what they were they are great.

The change was immediate, even when I still had my braces. I felt people would see the braces and think 'at least she is doing something about her horrible mouth'.

After they were taken off I found that children seemed to like me, this of course was because I smiled! I had to teach myself how to do it because it didnt come naturally to me.

It was the best 1500 quid I have ever spent. I wouldtn mind having a bit more work done but I couldnt justify the money now.

Perfect teeth do have an overbite, your bottom and top teeth should not come together when you close your teeth together.

The front are always more forward than the bottoms.

Riven - you mentioned getting referred to a dental hospital. DS1 has got his referral to a dental hospital through, but when i rang the dentist they said he would be assessed at hospital and decide if we need to pay

you only get Orthodontic treatment at the dental institute if it is very severe mal alignment. They have very strict criteria for treatment, they will assess you and advise you what treatment is necessary. If you are a suitable case they will treat, or if you are a lesser catergory referred to an orthodontist on the high street or advised not severe enough and therefore if you wish treatment you will have to pay.
riven the reason why your child probably had the stainless steel crowns placed is likely due to her cp. Also some teeth are so decayed that they can't be filled.

Well I feel sorry for the OP and I agree with whoever it was (Riven, I think) who said she cannot understand why you can have an abscess on your leg and have it treated for free yet the same thing in your teeth can cost you hundreds to put right.

I have spent a more than £2000 on my teeth. I have always looked after them and am anal about flossing and mouthwash, etc. I've only ever had one filling in my life but my teeth crack and break off and I end up having to have root canal and caps. My dentist sympathises and tells me it's genetic.

These days I'm skint and can't afford to go, but I've got another tooth going and am terrified about what I'm going to do about it as I don't have a spare few hundred quid to fix it.

I feel so lucky now. Was told as a teenager in the 80's that teeth not bad enough for a brace. This year I decided to pay for one. Orthodontist was shocked at the state of my mouth. I have no wisdom teeth as there is no room. Jaw out of alignment which was the cause of my severe headaches. Sent x-rays to NHS and within 6 weeks they said they were so bad they would fund all treatment which would have been a minimum of £2900

So maybe worth getting a second opinion?

Why are people questioning the price, I had braces as an adult very reeecently on the NHS as my case was bad requiring double jaw surgery afer 3 years of orthodontic work. Leavingt he surgery out of it, during the orthodontic phase I had at least 8 xrays done, 5 sets of moulds of both sets of teeth, medical photographs taken 3 times by the medical illustraion department plus 3 monthly appointments for 3 years. I think the price was very reasonable and my price was atually £4000 which I started paying privately until the NHS took over because of the severity of my bite.

Either you think the problem is bad enough that you will pay or it is only slight cosmetic work and not worth paying for

Only the most severe cases of orthodontics is done on the NHS now. Used to be that all cases were, but they simply can't afford to do them all now.

You won't successfully challenge it, because those are the rules now.

The good (?) news is that most places allow you to pay in instalments & treatment can take 2yrs, so you can spread payments out.

Of course it costs £2000 the orthodontist and all his support staff, rents, and lab staff have to be paid

Add to that the cost of all those tiny brackets that are placed on teeth, (usually 16 per child), the bands around the back teeth, (4) and the little rubber bands that keep those little bits of wire on. Instruments that enable the orthodontist to do his work. Then the little pieces of wire that are secured at the end of treatment to stop the teeth falling out of alignment. Or the appliances they need to stop them sucking their thumb before treatment starts, or the appliance needed to widen the palate, or the separators that part the teeth to allow bands to be placed around the molars.

The there are the breakages, if a band comes off, or a rubber band goes missing, of the wire gets bent.

All those items cost. And they ain't cheap!

Fabbychic, the top teeth aren't always infront of the bottom. I had braces about 20 years ago because my bottom teeth were infront. If the isn't corrected then it gets worse, as it is your lower jaws that grows on it's own and drags the upper jaw with it. If nothing is done then your chin will stick out massively.

However, the treatment is not always successful and about a year after I started NHS funding was removed.

My teeth are still crowded and overlapped, my top teeth (just the 2 front ones which would stick out normally) touch my bottom teeth a couple of millimetres from the top and the rest of my bottom teeth are infront of their counterparts.

But it would have been so much worse without braces (think Jimmy Hill). For those of you with thumb-suckers- my orthodontist said it was a shame I hadn't and told me to chew on q teaspoon to make up for it!

In our area of Scotland if you see an orthodentist then NHS braces etc are provided freee if your child's teeth are out by a certain amount degree. The guidelines are quite strict though and the orthodentist could be disciplined for defrauding the NHS if he did NHS braces for children who didn't meet the criteria. No idea who sets the criteria, presume the Scottish Government.

I don't think they pay much tax or National Insurance type of stuff in Australia

Nah, we don't pay any tax here at all...

We don't have to pay over $120 a yr for ambulance cover either! Ambulance cover that you probably hardly use, but if you don't have cover you can pay up to $6k for a ride in one.

We don't pay $50 for each doctors visit either, (adults & children) nor to we pay (full price) for scripts.

A recent visit to the dr for dd infected knee cost me $50 for the dr & $20 for her abs.

There are orthodontists out there who are benevolent when it comes to applying the criteria. Ask around in the playground, and go hunt them down

No there isn't! Because they will get in trouble for it. They are adhering to strict guidelines imposed by the government. If they breech them, they can lose their jobs.

I mentioned this to dh - we have a dog in the vet and were discussing costs of that, and when insurance would kick in. He was telling me that he had complained to a colleague in Sweden (high tax, wonderful services) about paying for dd1's teeth - colleague informed him that even in Sweden most people have to pay.

I would say ask around for recommendations for orthodontist or go back to your dentist for a different referral. We could have ended up paying if we had not done this.

The first orthodontist my dd (now 17) visited felt like a we were on a conveyer belt and no parents were allowed to go in with their children for there assesments, after 5mins she walked out with a pack of payment plans stating they wanted to charge interest on the £1800 if we went for the direct debit payment plan! We were absolultly disgusted by this treatment and attitued and walked out.

We went back to our dentist who were also appalled by this and were referred to another orthodontist it was further away from us and had an 18month waiting list. It was so worth the wait - they were fab took plenty of time with my dd and discussed fully with me that she was borderline with regards to qualifying on NHS. They did an xray and discovered that she has all 4 wisdom teeth in place waiting to come through, they advised that because she has such a small jaw if she did not have 4 teeth removed and the othodontic work done now she would have major problems in her later life when these teeth come through.

It may be worth asking about future wisdom teeth or not having the work done as a child etc as for her this meant she did just qualify having the treatment done on the NHS. She has just had her braces removed and her teeth look beautiful now she is so happy. My second dd has just had her braces put on at the same place as we asked to be referred to them straight away.