Cowboys & Indians

[chrispt]

I was having a chat with some other parents as their kids played cowboys and indians. It got us chatting about the real history of American. The upshot was that, maybe, allowing our children to play a game around the systematic genocide of a population wasn't the best way to teach acceptance.

I know kids don't see the game that way and we were sort of playing devils advocate, but there was a solid point at it's foundation.

You would never allow your children to play games based around SS & Jews, Hutu's & Tutsis, slavery or genocide in any other context, so why is it ok in this context. It was no less bloody or destructive.

Not that im going to stop kids having fun and i have very fond memories of shooting indians from the ridge or firing my bow and arrow at a wagon train.

I wonder if this is just hindsight and PC getting the better of me.

Whatcha reckon?

@ Wimple
I really am not trying to be the heavy, but people keep thinking "oh, it was long ago, and far away...."

well said @ ontariomama

i remember playing ww2 when i was little and wanting to be a german soldier because i thought the uniform looked good. i didnt know the relevance of the skull on the cap or the lightening bolts. i liked the look of it and remember telling my grandad (fought and captured at Dunkirk)that that was what i wanted to be when i grew up. He was very good and explained to an 8 yr old me (in as appropriate a way as possible)why it prob wasn't the best thing to aspire to.

I had played and learnt and that was in no way a bad thing. But the thing there was that i was taught the issue behind the game. I wonder how often the issues of C&Is are taught. I only learnt about the American wars because i looked into it myself after i had left education.

God I can't believe any of you lot, you're all so incredibly perfect!!

LOL at the 'in 200 years time everyones gonna be playing 'the holocaust' game, and anyone fancy a game of 'master and servants' - who wants to play big ol' Gracie cooking her 'time served' chicken and rice!! and "Thomas, get the manacles out, this here slave's giving me gibe!!"

And then another kid will turn up with 'the call of duty' reverberating round his head, screaming "raus and schnell", Killing all the other kids and burning down their houses!!!

Venting over.

dobie...words totally fail me.

Oh jog on Dobie, there's a dear.

Oh lighten up you soppy git

Back to the topic at hand....
OP, this is a very interesting discussion.
For the record, I dont think YABU at all.

My two dont play cowboys and indians. they play cowboys and Buzz Lightyear

But honestly, I have never allowed them to have guns, and have not let them watch anything with shooting that I can think of. But both (4 and 2) make guns out of lego etc and say "pill pill" (I have banned the word kill)

Now we have hundreds of army men and tanks and set up battles. But to be fair the kids get bored before me!

How is that racist for goodness sake? I'm not taking the mick by the way, I'm trying to see where it's racist, all of it or just a bit of it? Was it the slaves bit? was it the German bit? Which bit - and don't be cocky, I would really like to know which bit you took offence too?

'Lest we forget' - I'll have you know both sets of grandparents fought in the war you're on about!! So I don't get your point - kindly explain?

Oh she understands alright...take no notice.

OP, tiz' a sparkling example of PC gooorn MAD, mad I tell ya....

You were discussing under the influence of Uber-PCness, clearly.

There is a fine for such things you see...

Just throwing a question out to you all: Would it make a difference if kids played Cowboys and Native Americans but where the NA's win?

You sound like a massive bundle of laughs - geez - you'd actually monitor whether your children are playing cowboys v cowboys, indians v indians, germans v Americans etc. You're a hoot!!

'Did I just hear you call him an Indian, right straight to bed and no you ain't having any tea {crack}!!!!

It's a fantastic response. it was a little tongue-in-cheek when i was chatting with the other parents but we kind of realised we had a point.

I don't think it PC gone mad, but i do think that if you don't ask yourself questions about the boundaries we should set regarding games based on real life mass murder it's a slippery slope to forgetting the issues.

The chase, chase, bang, bang, good vs bad thing is all well and good. it's fun and important for children to build the imagination and make friends. But i do think the historical relevance needs to be taught as well.

We did use the example when chatting of how horrified we would be if a child told us they were hunting Jews with their friends

LOL @ Poorlittlekidthatstewieismom How original and thank you kindly.

Just a poorly-thought-through thought on this topic: the thing about the film history of this game is that it's about romance, heroes and idols. John Wayne, Clint and all the others were heroes because they were strong and cool. THAT'S what has inspired the game and why it's had longevity IMO.

I don't think that's a justification for overlooking the racist/ paternalistic aspect of the historical events, but it offers an explanation of why children find it such an appealing game.

Also, following on from my earlier post about child witnesses to massacres, I'll bet that in Rwanda, Sudan, and among child survivors of the Holocaust you'll have found children reenactinf the horrors they witnessed as a game. I wonder how the adults around them reacted - had I not read about it I'd find it horrifying, which I think is a normal response. It reminds me that play is incredibly complex at times.

I shall ponder this issue of whether it's appropriate for my child to play cowboys and Native Americans, thanks for starting this thread chrispt. I suppose, as others have said, that in 21stcentury Britain it's probably almost died a death and won't be a feature of my children's play at all.