would you use medised despite guidelines?

[pamelat]

Medised used to be for 6 months plus, then changed to 2 years, now apparently changed/changing to 6 years.

My friend is GP and has told me its because parents were combining with calpol and over dosing their children, and also because parents were using it to sedate

My DS has yet another chest infection. He is 8 months old, big robust baby.

He is full of cold. He can not breathe. He can not sleep. Literally he can not sleep, he will doze off and 20 mins later wake crying. Have been alternating calpol/nurfon and using teething powders all day et nothing is working.

His big sister is 3 and we used medised with her when she was 2 (it was allowed then)

I dont have medised in the house. DD not needed any for a long time, am thinking of getting some tomorrow and giving it DS, just 2.5 ml at night for him to breathe/sleep

What do you think, unreasonable/irresponsible or practical/necessary?

Pamelat Sorry for hijacking your thread. How is DS doing now?

Leonie, I read my last post back and I hope it didn't come across as confrontational? I genuinely did mean that you seem quite knowledgeable!

Well I definitely think you should pursue it in higher education and as a career when you can, I think you'd be an asset to the health service! :)

You should definitely go for it Leonie. Hope you get the statement sorted out soon.

I would give it as a last resort for a very snotty child who is unable to sleep (and you really need sleep with a bad cold). We still have a bottle from when DD was tiny (she's four) and I give her the recommended dose once in a blue moon for a really bad cold and never in combination with any other drugs. I say the recommended dose, but I actually give her the dose for a child a year younger than her because she's so small and light and I worry about paracetamol overdose. I will certainly buy a new bottle, lie in order to get it and check the quantities of active ingredients against the old bottle before administering it when it runs out (probably soon).

The one I really miss that used to be wonderful is Tixylix Cough and Cold. It was so great for a persistent dry cough as well as for snottiness and really helped DD sleep. Nothing else seems to cope with a dry tickly cough in the same way. It isn't sold at all now or I would certainly be telling lies to pharmacists in order to get more.

Isn't it weird how the reason given for not selling these cough and cold meds to under 6s was that they don't work in young children so there's no point in giving them. But we've all seen them work! Crazy.

If it is because of parents overdosing on one of the ingredients, wouldn't it be less patronising and more helpful to sick children just to put a warning in big letters not to give Medised together with any other paracetamol or cough medicine?

I really hate the nanny state mentality of pitching everything to the lowest intelligence level at the expense of everyone else with half a brain.

Horton the active ingredient in Tixylix was pholcodene which can be bought over the counter for dry coughs and works wonders

Annie:the reason is, as xstitch has also posted, that ongoing research has found that one of the active ingredients in Medised has been found to have a rare but very dangerous side effect of arrhythmia (which in worst case means death). I, for one, am very glad that the safety of paediatric medicines is kept under continuous review.

Other remedies, once widely used usually with no ill effects, are similarly withdrawn. Laudanum (strong opiate) and full-gin gripe water were once looked on benignly.

I would, but agree dont get medical advice from here!!!!

but in my days, it was used for babies too

I used it with my babies actually, as it was authorised for that age group then.

I've never said that arrhythmia was anything other than a rare side effect (and it is listed as such on the leaflet). But with the newer evidence (Australian, I think - the Antipodean ban was certainly earlier than the UK one) the regulatory authorities took a fresh view on the risk/benefit equation and introduced the new guidelines. I doubt they've been incomoetent in this - not least because of the clout of pharmaceutical companies.

I used it with my babies actually, as it was authorised for that age group then.

I've never said that arrhythmia was anything other than a rare side effect (and it is listed as such on the leaflet). But with the newer evidence (Australian, I think - the Antipodean ban was certainly earlier than the UK one) the regulatory authorities took a fresh view on the risk/benefit equation and introduced the new guidelines. I doubt they've been incompetent in this - not least because of the clout of pharmaceutical companies.

I would use it

Horton the active ingredient in Tixylix was pholcodene which can be bought over the counter for dry coughs and works wonders

Thank you! Well worth knowing.

Medised was amazing stuff. We all used it. And Yes to knock out our (poorly or teething) babies.

However, if it's been found to be unsafe then it's been found to be unsafe. Therefore I wouldn't use it without medical (and NOT MN!) advice.

I wouldnt use it unless presribed by a doc but i've never used is with DS anyway - I never saw it as a general medicine like calpol or vapour rub.

"Antihistamines, which dry the respiratory tract, have little or no value in treating a cough, except when it is caused by an upper airway allergy. With coughs from other causes, such as bronchitis, the drying action of antihistamines can be harmful, thickening respiratory secretions and making them difficult to cough up."

So giving Medised to a child with a chest infection is a bad move then...? As it is not an upper airway allergy, it is an 'other cause' where the thickening of respiratory secretions is not good news.

I wouldn't.

I have been trying to find a "decongestant" okayed for under 12s; does such a product exist?

Last night DS had a bad coughing spell, little spell of 3-5 coughs every 20 seconds or so -- keeping us both awake for over an hour. His cough is viral in origin as near as I can tell. I tried sitting him up, water. I didn't try honey & lemon because I know it doesn't work.

Finally in desperation I gave him Medised -- 3/4 of the allowed dose for age (6yo).

Within 5 minutes his cough was gone, and 2 minutes later he was sound asleep. For something that doesn't work, it sure seems to be quite effective!

Sorry about the Xouts, those weren't deliberate. Must remember not to ever use the --.

I disagree about the Paracetamol risk to an extent. Providing that the maximum dose is not exceeded and the use is not constant then I don't view it as a significant risk.

Excess use of paracetamol on the other hand I would regard as very high risk.

Hello all

DS saw out of hours doc on Sunday after no sleep saturday and progressively getting worse.He cant roll so cant sleep on tummy or side which doesnt help

He has anti biotics. Doc did say that he wouldnt like them prescribed again until DS is one as hs had them 3 times in 4 months, he fears he would become immune.

I see what your saying leonie but the Uk doses are generally safe. The lower toxic level in the Uk has been considered to be 75mg/kg for some time now. The standard doses (in the UK) are below this.

The 2 month plus age for calpol is with the condition that the child is at least 4kg. Two 2.5ml doses in a 24hr period post vaccination would give a dose of 120mg in total. Resulting in 30mg/kg if the child was at the minimum weight well below the toxic level yet enough to be therapeutic.

Three month plus the maximum dose in 24 hrs is
240mg. Even if the child were still only 4kg still well under this level.

I think it is relatively safe (bearing in mind nothing is 100% safe) when used properly. I think it is actually a good advert for in use monitoring that things are updated when more information is available. It is also a good advert against overuse which I agree is definitely a big problem. Especially in times when people are suffering from colds and flu and using combination remedies. I have seen it happen accidentally on many occasions.

In terms of use I would say that paracetamol has been much more widely used than diphehydramine ime and therefore would have much more information available

Is there anywhere that you can look up the maximum safe doses of calpol by weight? I have always worried about this as my daughter is really really skinny and small (the NHS BMI calculator puts her in the 0.2 percentile). She weighs just under 12 kg at four years old. What I do at the moment with any OTC medicine is to give her the dose below the one she's allowed. I can't remember the details offhand but if it says 5ml for a 4 year old and 2.5ml for a 3 year old, I give her the 3 year old dose to be on the safe side. Does this sound sensible? Or overcautious? I don't want to give her so little that it's not effective if she genuinely has a high temperature or whatever but I really worry about overdosing as it can be so very dangerous. Is it 60mg per 2.5ml spoonful?

OK, I've just looked up the dosing info. It says one to two 5ml spoonfuls for a 1-6 year old. I give her one 5ml spoonful per dose when she needs it as I reason that there are plenty of one year olds that weigh as much as she does, even though at four she is approaching the higher edge of that range so maybe one and a half 5ml spoonfuls might be more usually used for that age. She doesn's have any health issues, btw, she's just small and thin.