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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To object to being called Paddy?

113 replies

AmberEyes · 08/01/2011 17:44

A co-worker has taken to calling me Paddy because I am Irish.I find this derogatory and really thought times had changed.I have asked him to stop but he just laughs.
AIBU?

OP posts:
stoatie · 08/01/2011 20:41

It is racist, in the seventies it was considered funny to tell jokes about an Englishman, Scot and Irishman. The Irishman was always referred to as Paddy and was made out to be stupid etc.

However, my son is called Patrick, (and also Paddy or Patch) so I though this was a thread about that (and I was going to say IABU if anyone ever calls him Pat - I loathe it!)Grin

Idlewild · 08/01/2011 20:42

Would echo what Kirk1 says about harassment. 2 or more such incidents consigned a course of harassment which means that the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 applies. If it doesn't stop, go to your local Citizen's Advice who will be able to help you decide what to do next

missorinoco · 08/01/2011 20:44

Aaargh! Best stick to "having a strop" then. The irony is I got the phrase from my half-Irish friend as a teenager. Bet she had no idea....

ps Don't apologise for not naming me, you were only a few posts above, it was mainly my stunned disbelief that wanted confirmation.

FaffTastic · 09/01/2011 01:10

It is racist and as BarbielovesKen said a university worker took his employers to a tribunal when he got called a Paddy in the workplace. He was awarded £17,000 (i think) in compensation.

wayoftheworld · 09/01/2011 01:21

It is bullying! If you have asked him to stop and he does not, it makes him feel he has the power over you so either find and name to reply like "twat" everytime you hear him call you, you can smile as well when you say it...Grin

charliesmommy · 09/01/2011 01:26

I think political correctness has gone mad these days.

It really is (in my opinion) not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it.

If something is being said and it is meant in a derogatory tone, then yes, by all means take offence and object, but not everything is so simple.

I have plenty of irish friends, they will happily describe themselves as "paddys" and will say round about the 17th March.. "oh you have to come out, its paddys day".. etc..

As for the saying of a child "having a paddy".. anyone taking offence at that is really just looking for an insult where none is meant. It may possibly have had irish connotations a couple of centuries ago, but is certainly not a racist insult nowadays, and is just a phrase to describe a child having a tantrum, nothing more, nothing less.

I have worked in construction (albeit on the admin side) for most of my working life, and nicknames pertaining to a persons hair colour, build, race, nationality etc are commonplace, and are meant in a jocular way, with no malice whatsoever.

I agree that if someone feels insulted then they should speak up and explain their grievance, and the person using the phrase should respect that, and refrain from using it, but talk of compensation, tribunals and the way people these days get so upset over something that is most likely not meant to be nasty is a tad silly.

chipmonkey · 09/01/2011 01:34

charliesmommy, this is the age-old situation where it is fine for us to laugh at ourselves but it is NOT ok for you to laugh at us.

I would be deeply offended if any British person were to refer to me as a Paddy. Knowing that historically it has been intended as an insult and carries the inference that as an Irish person, you are likely to be less intelligent and inclined to partake in drunken punch-ups.

charliesmommy · 09/01/2011 01:42

But surely, you would be able to differentiate between a nasty insult and a nickname that is not meant with malice.

As I say, its not what is said, it is how it is said. I come from a different part of the country to where I live now, and am often mocked for my accent, and get the piss taken for being northern... I dont get all offended.. the people saying it are not saying it to hurt me, or with any nasty intent. I can just as easily take the piss back. I dont get wound up about it.

I would say I think working in a mostly male environment, and being used to banter does make me more thick skinned though.

MadamDeathstare · 09/01/2011 02:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jasper · 09/01/2011 03:04

"ethnic epithet"
Excellent! I will try that on my USA friends when they insist on addressing me in their terrible impersonations of a Scottish accent whilst calling me "jimmy"

But they won't understand , and that's my return ethnic epithet

MadamDeathstare · 09/01/2011 04:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChippingIn · 09/01/2011 05:12

OP if it's annoying you, they should sort it out - regardless of whether it's racist or not - he could be calling you shorty/gobby/lanky and I'd feel the same.

Can someone please explain to me why it's racist? Genuine question.

"Paddy" refers to an (any) Irishman, and is a shortened form of "Patrick", which is a common first name among Irishmen. "Patty" would be the obvious way to say it, but the Irish accent renders it as "Paddy". "Jock" is a corruption of "Jack", and "Jack" is a way of addressing a male person whose name is not known. "Jock" is "Jack", but with a Scottish accent, thus "Jock" has become a generic name for all Scotsmen. "Taffy", similarly, is a name that is often applied to a Welshman. "Dafydd" is a common first name for many Welshmen, but when an Englishman hears it pronounced by a Welshman, it sounds like "Taffy". "Limey" (a rather derogatory American name for an Englishman) comes from the days of wooden ships. Scurvy was a disease that afflicted sailors who were on long voyages, and is partly caused by a diet that is deficient in Vitamin C. Once the cause was identified, ships' captains made sure that their vessels carried fruit that was rich in Vitamin C, and a fruit that was popular on British ships was the lime fruit, hence the term "Limey".

I've lived here and overseas, I have both the accent from overseas & from here (both swear it's the other one Grin - so there I get called Pom and here I get called XXX (equivalent of Canuck I guess) and it couldn't bother me less?! I don't see how it's offensive.

(only not saying where as I'm trying to stay a bit anon and it's a real 'outer').

cornslik · 09/01/2011 05:51

From wiki:

Paddy may refer to:

* Paddy, a masculine given name, and a common diminutive for Patrick or Pádraig
* Paddy, in British English, slang (often derogatory) for an Irishman
* Plastic Paddy, a superficial claim to Irish heritage

more examples given on the wiki page e.g. paddy as a tantrum, paddy field etc

seeker · 09/01/2011 07:24

"I would say I think working in a mostly male environment, and being used to banter does make me more thick skinned though."

This is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start!

But the bottom line is that people should not be called things they don't want to be called. It is not up to the person who is being called whatever it is to develop "a thicker skin" it is for the person using the name to stop. Whether it's racist or not. If the OP was being called Debbie and she wanted to be called Dwborah swhouw would have the right to ask for it to stop.

"Paddy is, in fact, racist. Any "ethnic epithet" used by a member of a currwnt or former dominant raqce to describe the race they subordinated is, by definition, racist.

seeker · 09/01/2011 07:31

If you google "Paddy definition", of the first 4 references, 2 use the word disparaging, 1 the owrd offensive and the 4th talks about growing rice.

GrizzlyMacDuff · 09/01/2011 07:31

racism is about being insulting as a consequence of someone's birthright or heritage isn't it? surely that means that if you are Irish then being called a name that can be seen as derogatory is racist. My understanding of racism is also about whether the comment is unwanted so if that person and those around them are ok with that term then it is not necessarily racist, but the OP has made it clear that this is unwanted and insulting.

OP, take it further, you have a right.

ChippingIn · 09/01/2011 07:42

But why is Paddy derogatory?

GrizzlyMacDuff · 09/01/2011 07:49

Well why is paki derogatory? !!! i mean you could argue it is just a short version of some-one from pakistan? Apply that same notion to the word Paddy. It is not likely to be said with affection, especially as OP has said it is not wanted, it is therefore said as an insult to her, using her heritage as point of reference = racist.

seeker · 09/01/2011 08:00

It's a "placeholder" name. A generic term for a race of people who you, as a member of the ruling classes, can't be bothered to see as individuals.

(I don't mean "you" as specifically anyone on her, obviously!}

It's all about dominance and power and control, like so many other things.

CheerfulYank · 09/01/2011 08:16

Actually for a long time I didn't know that "paki" was derogatory. (I'm American and we don't have as many people of Pakistani heritage here, so I suppose it never came up before) I thought it was just like saying "American" or "French" or whatever. Similarly a lot of people here say they "got gypped" without knowing that it's a racial thing.

Nobody says having a paddy here, but I assume it's the same as throwing a mick,which I have actually heard. Hmm

GrizzlyMacDuff · 09/01/2011 08:33

charliesmommy i just read some of your posts. it is not about being pc though. and insults/racism/bullying or not, is not about intent, or tone. it is about whether it is unwanted or hurtful to the recipient, not whether that was intended.

If some-one were to call me a name that I did not like, and i told them to stop, it would be wrong to continue calling me that name, whether they thought it was fun/lighthearted/sweet/not bad or anything else. If it was in relation to my heritage, and a word that has historic negative connotations it would be racist PC or not.

ChippingIn · 09/01/2011 09:58

As I said in my earlier post the OPs company need to address the fact that this is upsetting her - but I would say that if they were calling her shortie/lanky/Fred when her name is Ginger, I am saying it because it's not her name and she has every right to be called her name in the office rather than anything else.

That aside...

Maybe it would refine my question to ask - 'why is Paddy historically negative'?

However, my 'other country' is a small place - similar say to Ireland and none of us object to being called xxx (similar to Paddy or Pom).

I may have to give up hope of ever understanding before I upset someone I think - but I'll give it one last shot. I don't understand why any of the following are racist/derogatory or whatever

Paddy
Pom
Taffy
Jock
Aussi
Canuk
Yank
Kiwi
Saffa

and why is it any different to

Scouser
Geordie

What is so bad about a name that simply denotes where you hail from?

I am not trying to start a racist row - I just genuinely do not understand the issue.

gorionine · 09/01/2011 10:06

Chipping, the issue is that it hurts the person it is adressed to.

I was born in Switzerland from a Swiss mum and an Italian Dad. All my school years (yes, including primary) I was called "la ritale" which woulf be the equivalent of "the Paki". Although I was born in that village, lived in it and did absolutely everything all other cghildren did, I never felt like I belonged because I was never just "gorionine" I was that child with a half Italian blood in.

WhereYouLeftIt · 09/01/2011 10:20

Chipping, I think they are considered derogatory as when directed at you they highlight your "otherness", that you don't belong with the majority.

Whereas when used as self-description you are claiming allegiance to your roots.

GrizzlyMacDuff · 09/01/2011 10:44

It is historically derogatory because over time it has been used to imply something negative, as a previous poster has said, the word Paddy has images of a thick irishman getting lathered and causing fights, has been used over and over in this context so therefore, when used, this is often the meaning that comes across, regardless of intent. Most racism is born of ignorance rather than malicious intent, it does not make it any less racist, or any less hurtful. In fact the fact that someone can be so flippant with words that a particular race/some of a particular race may find offensive because they have now or little knowledge about the word they are using is the epitomy of racism.

Just because many posters here are ok with being called names relating to their origins, that does not mean it is ok to direct it towards those who are not ok with it.