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AIBU?

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Original poster

to only want people on this thread who agree that school setting research topics for a 6 year old

301 replies

activate · 08/01/2011 12:09

is lazy teaching

as a teacher you do not set homework for children that they cannot acheive without parents doing it for them - you set homework for them that they can acheive with parental support

it is two different things

and this time I am going to say something

OP posts:
narkypuffin · 08/01/2011 18:28

I agree with you Activate. I'm pro homework - even if it requires parental involvement- but giving research as homework before they've been taught about it is stupid.

Homework to reinforce teaching is fine but this way all the teacher is doing increasing the knowledge gap in the classroom- some children will get a lot of help and know it all, others wont have any idea what they're teacher and other children are talking about.

This approach seems more suited to, say, 13 year olds studying a novel, where the teacher says read the third chapter for discussion on Wednesday, than a class of 6 year olds doing key curriculum stuff.

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 18:32

Fabbychic you are missing the point. Supervise or assist is one thing, doing it for them is something altogether different. Unless you can tell me how a child who can't read can do independent research, you can take your aghast ans shove it up your judgemental arse.

HaveAHappyNewJung · 08/01/2011 18:34

"This homework is a curriculum subject that has not been taught - they will bring in their research and show the other children so that's the teacher's job done then"

And there's the rub. Stoaty (if I may call you that!) makes a damn good case for research HW and that is the kind I always got. I have such fond memories of my dad helping me browse our ancient set of Encyclopaedia Britannica, I remember the thud of the correct book being plonked down on the dining room table. Sounds trivial but that'll stay with me forever :)

However it is naive to think all research HW is like that. So many times my DSCs have been given research to do and there is absolutely NO follow up either as a class or by the teacher marking it. And OMG don't get me started on 'research this online' they actually get told to google everything. This has all got no better at secondary and they always get the dreaded worksheets too which are also irrelevant. The teachers really do use it as a substitute for teaching.

mincenmash · 08/01/2011 18:38

Give fabbychic a pat on the back for managing a 12hr shift AND to help with all her children with their homework. [sarcastic face]

HaveAHappyNewJung · 08/01/2011 18:38

Also I don't see what literacy necessarily has to do with it. So what if it's the parent doing the reading and writing? The child can still talk and listen, and select which information to take to school, choose pictures, ask questions...

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 18:44

Because THAT is the parent doing the homework. If they want someone to do the reading and writing for the homework they can send me a fecking secretary home with it.

HaveAHappyNewJung · 08/01/2011 18:46

But the homework is NOT to read or write is it! That is (or should be) secondary to the actual task of finding out about something.

wigglybeezer · 08/01/2011 18:46

Once I sent my three to their Grannies for the weekend and announced as I dropped them off that DS1 had a report to write on a Famous Scottish person for Monday. A bit evil of me but my sanity was at stake.

TrillianAstra · 08/01/2011 18:47

YABU for saying that you only want people on a thread who agree with you - without even telling us in the title what it is that you want us to agree with

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 18:49

Its an integral part, so yes, it is the homework. You can't research a topic and report on it if you can't read or write, end of story.

I have my own homework, I'm not a pointless age inapprpriate task for a child as well. Though I don;t have that problem anyway since schools here don't expect a six year old to read or write and don't send such ridiculous homework home for parents to do.

Louii · 08/01/2011 18:50

Bad enough doing research homework but DS, primary 1, so age 5. Keeps getting sent home with notes to make feckin things, boats, lighthouses, and various other things.
Seriously do I look like I am a Blue Peter presenter?

stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 18:50

'....Homework to reinforce teaching is fine but this way all the teacher is doing increasing the knowledge gap in the classroom- some children will get a lot of help and know it all, others wont have any idea what they're teacher and other children are talking about.....'

But the point is no-one ever knows it all if it's research homework. The children find a few facts to share - of course they'll be overlaps, but they'll be new things that non-one else found out (even the teacher). It fills the knowledge gap of the whole class, including the teacher. For instance, I didn't know (until a child found out at home) that penguins stand on their heels. I found this very interesting, as did many of the children. We all learnt because I'd asked them all to go home to find 3 facts about penguins and to write them down. All but one child did just that.

I never said that not doing h/w will have a 'detrimental effect' - of course it won't at 6/7 years old.

The research h/w is good for sharing, collaboration, discussion and awe and wonder! It also brings home and school together in the eyes of the child.

I agree Jungy (can I call you that Grin) My son has had dreadful projects over the years including a particularly gruesome poetry anthology. The point I'm making on this thread is that research homework can be a great learning tool, even with the smallest children, but I agree that it has to have relevance and follow up.

stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 18:52

buzz: 'Its an integral part, so yes, it is the homework. You can't research a topic and report on it if you can't read or write, end of story.'

ummmm... but you can research a topic if you can talk.

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 18:55

talk to who? me. and what if I know fuck all about what it is (highly likely)? And how will he remember it all to take into school?

stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 19:00

Then you go both go to look on the internet or in a book, talk about what you find and you write down a couple of facts. Then you mention them a couple more times, so he remembers them before he goes into school. And he will be really proud to know things that other people don't know.

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 19:09

yes I go on the internet, and I read the book and I write it down. This is my point exactly.

He's SIX. He doesn't need to be proud of knowing things others don't. Because he's SIX.

You know for all the pushing children to read early and ridiculous homework and draconian rules on absence and Key Stages and SATS and all that, the UK still has shocking literacy rates and worse exam results than most developed nations, whereas countries that expect less from young children have better. Estonia beats the UK in education rankings.Just something to ponder.

narkypuffin · 08/01/2011 19:10

If it's three things about an animal I've already said I think that's fine and appropriate. It's about the subject and the amount of work required. I still remember how crocodiles drown their food Grin

elphabadefiesgravity · 08/01/2011 19:14

I totally agree with the OP. My ds is 6 and he is a very good reader but this sort of homework assumes too much.

This weekend he has been sent home with homeowrkto research a famous person. Ds does not know any famous people, he vaugely recalls a class discussion about Pixie Lott (who he has never heard of I know vaugely that she is some sort of singer( and Queen Elizabeth I though maybe he is confused about that one.

I work weekends and so can't get to libraries etc on Saturdays. He is very lucky in that he has his own laptop (against my better judgment) but the very strict parental controls would probably block any googling. If the school sent him home with a specific book to read and write about then maybe that woulod be OK.

Homework is totally uncessary at primary age, it does not improve educational outcomes and any homework that ds is not able to do independently (bar perhaps explaining the odd word is not done.

stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 19:19

I'm not taking about pushing children too early, etc, etc - that's an entirely different discussion and one where I think we would concur.

I am talking about general knowledge, not 'academic' achievement - learning about the world we live in. You don't need to read and write to be interested in things! Children in Estonia,I daresay, are encouraged to learn about the world.

It's all about learning to communicate and learning that there's more to life. With better general knowledge, we can link ideas and events, we can communicate better.

In my Y2 class, we watch Newsround every week, and it's amazing what sparks the children's interst.

narky - that's such a good example of whar I mean!

stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 19:22

elpha - what is the problem? Talk to him about it. What is he interested in? Sport? Films? Both go on the internet. Read a little bit together. Decide what's interesting, Write a couple of things down, print a couple of pics... job done.
Try Anthony Browne, the children's laureate - he's really interesting.

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 19:22

well yes, but thats not the same as homework. My child being interested in the world and natural, age-appropriate learning is my job as a parent, not something to be shoe-horned into some silly pre-determined stage as a box to be ticked off at school.

HaveAHappyNewJung · 08/01/2011 19:26

Ok to break it down into the two elements:

Child one: brilliant reader and writer. Sits down alone to do homework. Scans through a book for a sentence about penguins or whatever, and copies it down.

Child two: preliterate. Tells parent they need to find out about penguins. They go to library and the child browses until discovering a book with a picture of penguins on it and asks parent to read aloud. Parent reads it and child stops them at an interesting sentence. They discuss it and the child dictates what they feel is the most interesting fact fir their parent to write down.

Which child has learnt more?

Obviously these are extreme examples but believe me, Jungy knows from experience. I have twin DSDs age 12. One has always sailed through literacy, she races through HW. The other is dyslexic, she even had a reader/scribe for her SATs. But she TALKS. she is a very knowledgable girl, she's brilliant at science. Her understanding of pretty much everything far outshines that of her twin.

stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 19:30

Why are you assuming it's a box to tick? A primary teacher's job is to enthuse children. This type of shared learning does just that.
Worksheets don't, but this 'research' h/w or fact-finding h/w does just that.

Part of the ICT curriculum for KS1 is 'to begin to ask questions and find information to answer tem'. That doesn't mean they are expected do it all themselves!

The whole point is getting children to ask why, what, where, how, why and when - the basis of all knowledge. This can't happen listening to a teacher's limited Smartboard presentation in the classroom, however brilliant it may be!

Original poster
activate · 08/01/2011 19:32

the problem is a teacher setting the agenda for how we spend precious family time
when she can read sufficiently well to research and create and answer the homework is time enough for homework

The more experienced teachers, and the better ones, IME of primary education have never set this kind of onerous agenda and acheived amazing results.

It was an old-style teacher who got DS1 and DS2 reading and writing fluently

OP posts:
stoatsrevenge · 08/01/2011 19:33

Jungy.. we're not talking about literacy. We're talking about knowledge of the world. Both chilren have had an equal learning experience about penguins.

If the objective was 'scanning a text', it would be different. But it's not - it's finding 3 facts about penguins,