to despise oystercard for ripping us off

[2posh2post]

With apologies to non Londoners.

My DD1 has just outgrown her 11-15 oystercard and has a new 16-25 yrs one. She had a credit of about £10 on her old card. No problems, I thought, this is a fully automated electronic system, there is no doubt as to her identity (it is fully checked for both cards) so they can just transfer the credit. Nope, can't be done. Ok, say I, how do I get the money back? Customer services said "the best thing is to send them the old card by registered post". Ok, that's a half hour trip queuing at the post office and a cost of a few quid. So how else can I do it, I asked. Can you send me a cheque? Can you credit her new card next time she touches it in? Ah, no, when they said the "best thing to do" they meant (they clarified), that this is the ONLY way to get the refund. Snort. I am hopping mad. It's just not worth it for a tenner and I can't help believing that they hope thousands will take the same view.

I just put my daughter's card in the normal post and got a refund cheque no problem.
If it's not worth queuing for registered post for a tenner then it shouldn't matter if the card gets lost in the post as you're no worse off and possibly £10 better off.
Agree it's frustrating, particuarly since Oyster is usually very good at admin.

YANBU TfL and Oyster are money-grabbing whores (Londoner here).

Agree with Whatdo...that's what my friend did with her son's card too.

WDIKA you are far too reasonable :-) But the point is that the system they have devised represents an artificial barrier (not to mention generating unnecessary post and carbon emissions) as they could perfectly easily do it at the push of a button if they had the least desire.

I guess I am annoyed with oystercard anyway as I have had SO MANY wrongful penalties (due to a little known software peculiarity they have on station interchange times at open stations) that have taken me SO much time to reclaim, and this seems to be rubbing salt into the wound.

Absofcroissant. I agree. I did a Freedom of Information request last year just for the Canary Wharf area and was told officially by TfL that "there were 1,464 overcharges involving interchanges between the 4 stations in your request in the last 8 weeks". If you have a Pay As You Go card you can quite easily not even realise you have been overcharged and would never get a refund (that happened to me for months before I twigged). These overcharges were NOT due to customer fault but only due to spending less than 90 minutes on the Wharf and the software assuming that you double swiped by mistake instead of that you arrived, and then an hour later (or whenever) you left. Grrrrr......sorry, a bit complicated, but oh so unfair and this is the final straw.

Do they check ID then?

Could your DD not use up the £10 aged 16 and 3 days?

TA: Yes, you have to show an ORIGINAL passport, birth certificate or driving license so there is no doubt at all as to identity.

All 11-15 cards are disabled on 1 October after their 16th birthdays by which time most have their 16-25 cards ready to go. It is simply bizarre why TFL don't automatically transfer any credit across from one card to the next. There is NO reason for them not to other than incompetence OR a hope that they will make money out of it.

It's a bummer I know but actually we are so lucky to have the free travel for kids that I can kind of forgive Oyster for their misgivings

whatdoIknowanyway

"If it's not worth queuing for registered post for a tenner then it shouldn't matter if the card gets lost in the post as you're no worse off and possibly £10 better off"

No, I AM worse off already - it is a real ten pounds that I have already paid and am trying to get back. under no circumstances would I be "£10 better off". I can be zero (less postage) or down a tenner.

I am not sure how you can say that Oyster is so good at admin. Seriously, have you ever phoned their helpline? have you ever got through in less than 15 minutes (for which YOU are paying even when you are phoning about something that is THEIR mistake)?

mutznutz: yes, I agree about the bus travel. Mine use DLR mainly so it's never been free (hence the need for money on the card).

I keep getting over charged on my oyster everytime there is a delay on the tubes as they say the journey can't possibly have taken that long - well it did cos I was on the tube moving nowhere for 2 hours! Also got overcharged before christmas when the tubes were halted because of the snow. Have tapped in and then told no more tubes so had to walk home but was still charged!

Sorting this stuff out doesnt seem to be easy though, my local station won't do it (although I know the one's up London do but i'm not going all that way just to sort it out) and I don't think the helpline would be able to ehlp me as it's a py as you go one and isn't registered to anyone so how the hell would they refund me! Drives me crazy. Think it happens all the time. I think I only notice it because I only put a little bit of money on at a time. Feel sorry for all those who keep it topped up so probably don't even notice.

monkeyflippers I agree. Although actually you can phone up and give a card number and they will refund you (but you write off 30 minutes of your life and it costs you about a quid for the call). Mind you, don't let them know that the card is your own as then they will want to charge you £10 for the release of personal data if "they" think they know who it belongs to(I have been there). You have to stay anonymous. Bizarrely.

2posh2post oh really? Din't think they would be able to do anything about it. What do you mean about not letting them know then card is mine?

2posh you put it much more elegantly than I did

They are rubbish - if you don't swipe in or our correctly (which can mean hanging around holding your card onto the holder while a line of angry commuters pushes behind you), you can get charged £6 for one journey. Appalling!

I also get annoyed that they've lowered the amount refunded when they have delays. It used to be that you'd get the full cash price (£4) refunded if there was a delay of 10 minutes or more. It's now a single Oyster PAYG fare (around £1.20 at 2010 prices). First day back in the new year, and there were massive delays on the Jubilee line - DP waited for 25 minutes, at 7am, so kind of before rush hour, to get onto a tube. And, they didn't even have the correct times displayed, so the commuters had to keep on asking the staff when exactly a tube was going to turn up.

Oh, and don't get me started on the TfL website - otherwise known as "one of the greatest works of fiction, EVER".

absofcroissant wow, I never knew they would refund due to delays!

"monkeyflippers" - if TFL have evidence linking the card to a name then the data they hold about journeys becomes "personal data" and they are allowed to charge you £10 for information about journeys as stipulated under the data Protection Act (NB the DPA doesn't force them to charge you, it simply allows them to). If you just give the card number then they seem willing to look up your last few journeys and refund if appropriate. It's ridiculous.

Oh yes, they do. DP's a great expert on this. You can do it on their website. You have to state the approx time, date and stations etc., but they do normally refund you (send a cheque through which can be used at a ticket office). I think they realise how rubbish they are and also refund - I've never had one of my requests questioned (not that I'm doing fraudulent refunding requests).

I didnt know you could put money onto the 11-15 oyster cards?

I thought they were just for the free bus travel

or is it for use on trains?

sorry not doubting just interested

Oystercard are robbing bastards. My card stopped working so they told me to replace it. Despite repeated emails and phone calls the £19 balance on the old card never did show up on the new one

I once snapped my oyster card in half. When I went to get it replaced, I had to fill in a long and detailed form, and take with me my full driving licence (including the paper bit, that no one ever takes anywhere) plus a utility bill.

The guy at the station spent literally ten minutes very carefully making sure that the address and name I'd put on my form matched those on the bill and my driving licence, which they did.

What they didn't match was the name and address that my oyster card was registered to - it was in my maiden name at our old address. But that, apparently, wasn't a problem.

I also thought the kids' oysters were free. Don't they travel free everywhere anyway?

Totally OT, but as I non-Londoner, when people talk about Oyster cards, I always imagine them carrying one of these around in their pockets

amberleaf, yes, you can put money on the 11-16 year olds oyster card for travel on the underground. Tube travel is much cheaper if an 11-16 year old uses the oystercard credit than if he or she buys a ticket at the station.

Agree with OP that the so called system is place is a clear rip-off based on many people not bothering to post the old card back for the refund.

and yes, the same is true for trains and docklands light railway. You put money on the card and the children swipe and get charged much less than if buying a paper ticket. It's a great system in principle but so needs sharpening up. EG my youngest DD uses her 11-16 card to go to the shops but takes an adult one (much more expensive) to come home because of the glitch on the system that means it doesn't recognise a return journey within 90 minutes of arrival. She was mortified once when she made a quick visit to the shops, had swiped correctly, but was then accused of fare dodging on the train home by the ignorant inspector who did not even understand his own system which WON'T let you swipe an ENTRY within 90 mins (or 100 mins or 110 mins depending on day of week and time of day) of an EXIT at nearby non-gated stations. She was highly embarrassed and quite traumatised. I was furious. I wish I had been there.

OP yes my experience is quite different.
We love our Oyster cards and I've always been impressed with the speed and efficiency of their response. My DCs use it to get to school everyday and my DH commutes into town with it. I have pay as you go and use it a lot. When I've phoned the helpline (did it last week) I've got through quickly but I usually deal with issues online. I do however live in a totally different area of London to you so don't have problems with DLR for example.

Sorry about the "If it's not worth queuing for registered post for a tenner then it shouldn't matter if the card gets lost in the post as you're no worse off and possibly £10 better off". Didn't express myself very well.

What I meant was, if you give up, write off the £10 and decide to do nothing because the registered post is too much hassle (which I can understand) then you have lost your £10. So by using ordinary post you are no worse off than if you decided to do nothing and possibly better off (although still neutral with your original position).

I don't understand what you have been told about being charged for your journey information (which does seem like a rip off) as this is freely available online. All our cards are registered with TfL so at any point I can look up online and print off details of all my journeys (and the rest of the family) for the last 8 weeks.

monkeyflippers you can register pay as you go cards. All ours are and we manage all payments etc online. if you are due refunds they are then sent directly to your card. You can even transfer balances from card to card (although sadly not child or 16-17 cards, just adult ones)

mrskbpw my card stopped working whilst I was in Paddington last week. The TfL man at the barriers directed me to the ticket office. On examination they saw that my card had a crack in it (it's quite an old one as we have used Oyster from the beginning). Anyway, 5 minutes later I had a new card, balance transferred from my old card, job done, no cost to me.

All I had to do then was go online and update my autotopup instructions (where anytime the balance on my card drops below £8 it is automatically topped up with £40 from my credit card) to say which credit card I wanted the money to come from for the new card. The card details were already there when I logged on having been added automatically when they changed the card at Paddington. I was even given £3 credit for setting the new auto topup up on line.

Hmm, starting to sound as if I'm employed by LTR. I'm not but am interested by the problems so many people have experienced as our experience has been almost universally good. We've obviously been lucky :)

And the £5 deposit when you buy a new Oystercard. Why should we have to pay this?

It is supposed to be refundable when you hand in your Oystercard but who is going to bother? They don't give you the cash back but send out a cheque. So as well as the wait, there is the possibility it will get lost in the post, you will have to spend time chasing and waiting for them to resend it and then spend time queueing in the bank to pay in the cheque.

The deposit is supposed to ensure that you retain the card. A system which penalises those with a forgetful nature - early Alzheimers, ADD - and victims of theft.

The system should be simplified. Oyster Cards are ticket alternatives meant to save time, not generate passive income by means of confusing rules and regulations.

With Oyster - whether at point of sale in shops and stations - it is luck of the draw whether you get someone who helps or someone who actively hinders.

And when you encounter the hindrance the argument for reducing ticket office staff is very compelling. You might as well be talking to a machine and it will probably be more useful.

Scrap the Oyster deposit!