to NOT be worried about my kids getting flu/swine flu?

[babeinthewood]

DS2 had it at a year old, he was poorly and fevery but we kept his fluids up and he got over it with a course of tamiflu (which they reported the following week didnt work anyway! so worth the hassle of getting it into him!)

my two boys were offered the jab to which I politely declined ds2 cant have it anyway because he had the tamiflu.

Im just not concerned, I trust my instincts enough to know if my kids are that ill that they need medical attention, outside of that its just flu! IMO

If I were offered the vaccine for ds, I would take it. I will be vaccinated at work. Not particularly because I would never forgive myself yada yada but because I would hope that increased vaccination would reduce the spread in the wider community, which might just save someone's life and reduce opportunities for the virus to mutate.

Pag and riven you're in unenviable positions and you're right the 'I'd never forgive myself' line is ridiculous. But what gets me in the op is exactly that assumption- 'if they got flu well that's ok I'd just take them to the doctor', as if those who have died had parents who didn't do that! These things are precisely not under anyone's control. The op has the luxury of choice over the vaccine, but she shouldn't kid herself that her 'instincts' will make a blind bit of difference to how ill her children will be if they are unlucky enough to catch flu.

Your children so your decision about the vaccine.

I just had to say though that previously having had tamiflu does not mean you cannot have the flu vaccine. People currently on tamiflu wouldn't be given the vaccine but thats is because those on tamiflu are likely to have a febrile illness. They would be able to opt to have the vaccine when the recovered if they wanted to. I just don't want people who want the vaccine to think they can't.

The way the OP reads it suggests that parents who chose to have their children vaccinated are unable to recognise when their children are ill. I really hope that isn't what the OP meant. It is certainly not true in my experience.

Hi

interesting one re the how much you can control things issue.... I struggle with it all the time as only have one DS, 18 months, who has had health issues (luckily doing very well now - but still more vulnerable than most to respiritory infections), and am SAHM - so it is within reason possible for me to protect him from infections - not completely but minimise the risk a lot. But then we both miss out on other things..

He was in hospital for 6 weeks as a small baby including time on a ventilator and I really don't want to go through anything like that again (OP having a very sick child in hospital obv doesn't compare to loosing one but it is pretty traumatic and not something to be taken lightly.)

Anyway we have both gone to ground a bit during this epidemic, and have both (and my DH) had jabs.

Riven I think that the NHS will jab household contacts of the vulnerable, if that is what you want, but the vaccine takes about 2 weeks to work, and is only about 70-80% effective.

OP well yes fine not to worry but as others have said you are lucky you are all healthy and as long as you can understand others who do that is ok...

Sorry for waffle...toddler trying to drag me away from keyboard...

Most of the time we can't control things and often what makes something scary/worrying is the illusion that we can - a feeling of having something to make a choice about.

Vaccine available + steep rise in flu cases = responsibility for deciding whether or not to try to get the jab.

Steep rise in flu cases + possibility of keeping child off school for a week or two (like if you're a SAHM) = responsibility for deciding whether or not you should do that. (Obviously that's a totally straightforward decision when you've only got a normal background level of bugs about - it's only a bit harder when there seems to be a lot of extra illness about)

No jabs available, or absolutely no possibility of keeping child off school for a week or two no matter how much flu is about (like if both parents WOHM) - both of those mean you have no choice and so less angst over whether or not you're doing the right thing. Maybe not less worry but less agonising over the decision, at least! Easier then to just shrug your shoulders and accept the risk which is definitely still low for most people.

Though I've never quite got it when people say why worry it's only people in at risk groups who are in danger anyway (or words to that effect). That's actually a hell of a lot of people. It's easy to be blase and ridicule people who are worried when you've got no family members with asthma, not so easy when you have.

The new numbers will be out any time and let's all hope that they show cases have peaked and we're on the downward slope on the other side. Even if the peak hasn't already happened it can't be far off.

I'm in two minds on this one. I did have the jab, as I've heard from a friend in the NHS that cases are still rising and they're panicking a little. Whether they're right or wrong is only a question of whether you think the risk is worth avoiding - I paid privately (at Boots as I'm not high risk) and didn't want to burden the NHS

Errr I was of this opinion until my dc actually got it.

All 3 bursting with health,no health conditions. I have never seen them so ill,it was really scary.

They are ill for sooo long with it and there is nothing you can do. The worst of the 3 couldn't breath and was hallucinating,we just couldn't get his temp down.Calpol and Neurofen just don't touch it.We ended up at A&E due to the breathing but there were kids there far worse apparently and they were inundated so he couldn't be admitted.

2 local kids died that weekend.

I have GP friends trying to get their kids vaccinated.I will be too as if what my 3 had wasn't swine flu I'm slightly concerned how they'll cope with anything worse than they had.

To be honest there isn't much you can do,it's a lottery if your kids get it but you abu to just say "it's just flu"-flu kills and it's horrendous.

I agree with MilaMae.

I have very relaxed about the whole thing over the last couple of years. Have always been very relaxed about health scares, tbh. Never unduly worried about my two catching anything, both strong healthy children etc.

Then my 1 yr old DD got swine flu last winter and it was incredibly frightening. She deteriorated from a bit of a sniffy nose to dangerously high temperature and dehydration within 24 hours, and was hospitalised for a fortnight. Worst weeks of my life.

They weren't suggesting swine flu vaccinations for children in my area last winter, only for the ill/infirm or pregnant women, so i tried to tell myself it wasn't my fault.

However, I am certainly no long blase about it all, and I do worry very much. I am thinking about getting them both vaccinated next week, actually.

My DS2 has a congenital heart defect but is too young to be vaccinated (4 months). He was very very sick when a tiny baby (PICU and ventilated) so have arranged to have me, DH and DS1 (who is 3) to be vaccinated. I didn't get the jab when I was pg with DS2 and didn't get DS1 done either, but I can do my best to prevent DS2 getting sick, so I will.

I worry about swine flu, just like I worry about my DSs being run over/abducted/not eating enough veg. Probably nothing bad will happen to them but it is my job as their mother to be vigilant and to worry about them. I think it goes with the territory.

BTW I had a male friend who died of flu years ago. He was a big burly biker aged 28 with no health problems. He keeled over and died in his own living room. His family were devestated. Flu can be very bad indeed.

Both I and DD2 had it last year, DH and DD1 did not. DD2 was ill for a couple of days and bounced back. I, a healthy adult who is very rarely ill, was knocked off my feet for 6 weeks, I have never felt so ill in my life and some days did wonder if I would ever get better. It went straight to my chest and there were talks of hospitilisation unless I literally took to my bed and did nothing.

Your children-your decision. Personally, I would have the vaccine if it were offered/a decision supported by the GP.

YANBU, I'd take my chances any day with flu/swine over voluntarily giving my child a vaccine that's been in production for all of 5 mins!

There is so much already to worry about, we'd all be stark raving mad if we spent all our time stressing about what MIGHT happen. You are dealing with it very sensibly - watching for signs, and seeking medical attention if your child gets ill. As the good book says, "who by worrying can add a single day to his life?".

Unless worrying about it is going to stop your children from getting it, then why sweat about something you can't control?

Have read this thread all the way through and decided that I should take vaccination that has been strongly recommended by DOH and is provided by my GP [for pregnant women]. So made appointment for Monday for it.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to share their experiences, some of them so frightening Really made me think...

Im not saying that people's instincts arent developed enough, I just trust mine more than others I guess.

I think its fine to have vaccines for children who have athsma and vunerable children and adults, but I dont see mine as vunerable in that sense.

Personally with swine flu vaccine that came out before, I refused because of this and the fact that they had developed the vaccine so quickly there was no way they could know of any long-term side effects. Id rather my child had a terrible bout of flu that be saddled with a life long side effect iyswim?

We were told by our GP that we couldnt have the Jab for DS2 because he had, had the tamiflu and that would 'cover' him for a certain period, wether that period is up or not I dont know, but no-one in my house has had flu for 18 months now!

Can I just point out, My DSD mother died of a heart attack when she had 'no underlying health problems' these people can have slight health problems that make them weaker, Im not saying they do or dont in any cases, but Im willing to bet that half the cases we hear about on the tv there's a case of undiagnosed heart arrythmia or something similar

I had swine flu last year (GP thought it was but they weren't testing by then). I'm an otherwise very healthy 36 year old woman - hardly ever ill and hadn't had proper flu for about 10 years so kind of felt safe. I had never been so ill in my life! High high temperature for days on end and then a secondary chest infection that nearly landed me in hospital because I found it difficult to breathe. I now have a lot more respect for flu/swine flu and can see how children could go downhill quickly.

That said, I'm not that worried about it because a)I suspect my children were exposed to it already but had it much more midly than me (assuming it's the same virus this year!!) and b)it's been blown out of proportion. So far 50 or so people have died of flu - it's not clear how much excess mortality there is from that usually expected.

I'd still have the vax if it was offered to all children but I'm not seeking out a private GP at the moment to give it to my children (and haven't got around to doing it myself although I did get flu jabs for me and dc when living abroad where it was routinely offered).

I've read it takes 2 or 3 weeks to start working after the injection AND it's only 80%effective.

I had very very bad flu last year (badly ill for a month and I'm rarely ill ever)and assumed it was swine flu as i gave it to a friend who tested positive for it after being hospitalised. Saying that i have a horrid cough/sore throat right now and worry i'm coming down with it a second time - not sure it's thats posible though?!

whats all the guff about "quickly developed vax" and "unknown side effects". Its the flu jab. It is changed every year to accomodate new strains and types, its given to millions of people.

Babeinthewood that sounds like a load of crap from the gp. Tamiflu is an antiviral, it just lessens the effect while you have the flu and is a shortterm preventative. It is categorically not a vaccine.
Why on earth are you so disbelieving that flu can be deadly, heart arryhthmias are hardly likely to give you pneumonia, which is the usual reason people die from flu- besides which how do you know you or your dc don't have such a condition?
I still think there is a strong touch of arrogance about you, an assumption his kind of thing happens to other, somehow less healthy and/or clever people. You have the right to make risk alculations, but you sound more like you've decided you'll be ok because you have a special instinct that'll keep you safe- that is just deluded.

I'm not panicking or overly worried but as Ds has asthma, has already spent to long in hopsital in his first 14 months (he was on cpap this time last year) he is getting his flu jab next week as it is a sensible way to reduce the chance of him getting it. If he was a fit and healthy toddler I wouldn't be worried about it though.

80% is very effective for a flu vaccine. In fact it's pretty effective for any vaccine really.
We all had swine flu last year and whilst it wasn't terrible it certainly wasn't very nice (we are a very healthy family in general and we all got it at the same time - four ill people for a week, not good) and if it is easy to mitigate the risk then I can't think of any good reason not to. The flu jab has been around for a long time and is used on millions of people worldwide. Whilst for many people flu isn't anything other than unpleasant (as it was for us) it regularly causes chaos in the healthcare system and kills large number of people. Yes many of them have other health issues, known or unknown, but it is not somethign to dismiss. There are good reasons why the government spends large amounts of money on vaccination and why every health organisation has to have a flu plan.

Some things we can't prevent and have to be pragmatic others we can prevent (within reason) and therefore we should

I had the flu jab in October - free at work. It didn't occur to me to look into having the children vaccinated.

15th December dd went down with all the symptoms of swine flu. Very poorly for five days but was well enough to attend school on 21/22 December. DS went down with the same symptoms on 17 December. Had it really badly and still not fully recovered and I have had to discuss how he is with his tutor at school and it has been agreed tht he can do a week of short days if necessary.

dd lost 5lb, ds has lost 10lb. They are 12 and 16. This is DS's GCSE year and he has mocks in 10 days's time. With hindsight, YES I wish I had vaccinated, YES I will next year and will pay because I would NEVER again risk major public examinations for either of them. DS btw is not a toddler (thank god because I would have hated a toddler to be as ill as he was). DS is 5'10" hefty rugy player.

I agree with libelulle, I really wonder what the GP was on about. The fact that your DS had a flu virus should confer a degree of immunity to that particular strain of flu. This would happen wither or not he had had tamiflu.

This is an extract from the summary of prescribing characteristics for tamiflu. This is an official document produced by the manufacturers:

'Tamiflu is not a substitute for influenza vaccination.
The use of antivirals for the treatment and prevention of influenza should be determined on the basis of official recommendations. Decisions regarding the use of oseltamivir for treatment and prophylaxis should take into consideration what is known about the characteristics of the circulating influenza viruses, available information on influenza drug susceptibility patterns for each season and the impact of the disease in different geographical areas and patient populations'

Tamiflu can be used for post exposure prophylaxis e.g. one member of a household comes down with 'flu' someone else in the house hold is prescribed it as there is a high chance that the virus is already incubating in their system. The tamiflu would be given to try and fight off that virus to prevent or lessen symptoms. the tamiflu would confer no long term immunity.

The letter I got from my GP stated that if my children had, had tamiflu within a year or so then they should not be immunised. I dunno! thats just what I was told!!

Im not saying I have a 'special' instinct. My son had a greenstick fracture at 14 months and although I knew he'd hurt his leg, he went to sleep, so I didnt realise for 3 hours!! we are all only human!

Im not saying it can be so deadly, Im just saying its no different to what it used to be, hundreds of people die every year from flu, and always have done, the jab doesnt make that much difference. The modifications to the flu jab are done in haste, therefore they dont know the true effects of it, like the MMR it was years before they noticed what the effects were simmilarly the anti sickness tablets (cant remember what it was called) int he sixties that caused serious effects on unborn children.

I dont think size is particularly relevant, anyone can be ill. I just think all the hype and people rushing around trying to get themselves immunised is a bit daft! you need immunity, otherwise you will get everything going, to get immunity you have to be ill from time to time. These jabs are sythetic, they cant protect you from everything, so better to get it and then let your body do its job.

I was using heart arrythmia as an example btw, you can have all sorts of silent health problems, some of which can make you weaker to other things. and yes my kids could have one of them, but then we could be walking down the road and a speeding car could run us over, thats life! and so is the flu!