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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be laughing at his stupidity as a landlord?

16 replies

natknickersinatwist · 05/01/2011 19:46

sorry the title is to grab you.. I have another thread going at th moment. Just wondered if someone can help me find the meaning of this;

In the tenancy agreement it says nothing about notice. all it says is a term of 6 months.

question;

what does this mean;

2.The agreement creates an assured shorthold tenanct within Part l chapter ll of the housing act 1988. this means that when the term expires the landlord can recover possession as set out in section 21 of that act unless the landlord gives the tenant s notice under paragraph 2 of section 2A to that act stating that the tenancy is no longer an assured shorthold tenancy.

is this about notice? i have tried google but no results

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 05/01/2011 19:50

Probably better putting this on legal as I doubt many here would know.

bibbitybobbityhat · 05/01/2011 19:54

No, it is not about the notice period you need to give when intending to vacate the property.

Nor is it about the notice period the landlord needs to give you if/when he wants you to leave.

It is about the notice period the landlord needs to give you if he intends to change your tenancy from an Assured Shorthold Tenancy to any other kind of tenancy.

It isn't relevant to your current situation (I have read your other threads).

Perhaps a trip to CAB might be in order?

natknickersinatwist · 05/01/2011 19:59

i think you may be right bibbity

OP posts:
bluecheesefiend · 05/01/2011 20:10

an assured shorthold tenancy is one where the tenant has quite a lot of protection. So for example, it might be for a fixed term of 6 months but at the end of the 6 months the LL can't just say "on your bike", he has to serve you with a section 21 notice to bring the tenancy to an end. You, on the other hand get to just leave!

The clause you've quoted is basically saying that the tenancy is an assured shorthold and the LL has to comply with that by using a section 21 notice to bring it to an end unless, for some reason, the status of the tenancy changed at some point during the fixed term.

your tenancy qualifies as an AST because

(i) its below a certain threshold (can't remember what - about £480 per week I think),
(ii) it's your primary place of residence,

and one other factor which I can't remember.

So hypothetically, if your rent increased during the fixed term and that increase brought you over the threshold, or if it was discovered that this properly wasn't your primary place of residence, your LL could serve notice to you that the contract was no longer an AST but a common law tenancy and you would not be afforded the same level of legal protection - basically it would be easier for him to regain possession, he'd just have to serve you with a plain notice to quit (just a letter rather than a rather specific notice)

Its a long time since I worked in lettings so this is all a bit vague - if you want a more informed opinion give ARLA, the association of residential lettings agents a call (number on google) they're like the main governing body for lettings and they'll give you the most up to date advice.

Essentially you don't need to worry about the clause, it's just in there for the sake of protocol.

OpenToLawSuits · 05/01/2011 20:14

We're in a short term tenancy now as we're building our house. The contract runs for 6 months, if you do not vacate in those 6 months, then it runs month to month where the landlord has to give you 28 days notice to vacate and vice versa. However, you are not legally allowed to leave within the initial 6 months you paid for, regardless of notice...if you do wish to vacate in those 6 months you have to pay the difference (if you leave on month 3, you'd have to pay the remainding 6 months or your landlord can take you to a small claims to recover the money).

Basically if your 6 months are up and you don't intend on leaving, ask for another contract for 6 months...failing that you can leave/he can evict you, with a months notice.

Remember your bond will be tied up in these conditions too.

natknickersinatwist · 05/01/2011 20:28

where do i stand if the landlord has made a written agreement that he will release us from the tenancy if we wish? and then gone back on his word

OP posts:
JaneS · 05/01/2011 20:32

I think nowhere. You've signed a legal document (the tenancy agreement); the email he wrote you doesn't have the same legal status.

I think a 6month tenancy is almost impossible to get out of (ime).

bluecheesefiend · 05/01/2011 20:42

i really think you want to talk to ARLA

natknickersinatwist · 05/01/2011 20:47

who is arla?

OP posts:
bibbitybobbityhat · 05/01/2011 20:49

Arla is the Association of Residential Letting Agents - am not sure they would be willing to help you as you have presumably signed this tenancy directly with the landlord.

Go to Citizen's Advice.

OpenToLawSuits · 05/01/2011 20:57

It has to be a legal document, not a bit of paper that he brought to you on a whim.

But speaking to Citizen's Advice is probably a good idea, unless you're with an agency.

natknickersinatwist · 05/01/2011 21:04

Okay CAB is my port of call tomorrow.. after my washing machine has been fixed fingers crossed in the am!!

one thing after another at the minute

OP posts:
JaneS · 05/01/2011 21:05

Good luck with them, hope it goes well.

FabbyChic · 05/01/2011 21:06

Generally it should state a notice period, that is usually one month either side.

LittleMissHissyFit · 05/01/2011 21:27

As I said to you on your other thread. CAB/Shelter.

A AST is an agreement for 6m, no more, no less.

At the end of the agreement the tenant or the landlord can state that the contract will NOT be renewed and possession will be required on the date the AST ends.

You signed a legally binding agreement to rent the property for the minimum period of 6m. There is no notice period during this time.

I'm sure if you go through your agreement it will probably say something like this:

  1. The Landlord can terminate the Tenancy on the last day of the Term, or after the Term, by service of the Landlord's notice of intention to seek possession.
  1. Before the Landlord can end this tenancy, he shall serve any notice(s) in accordance with the provisions of the Housing Acts. Such notice(s) shall be sufficiently served if served in accordance with section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925. Under this, a notice shall be sufficiently served if sent by registered or recorded delivery post (if the letter is not returned undelivered) to the Tenant at the Property or the last known address of the Tenant or left addressed to the Tenant at the Property.
  1. The Tenant can terminate the Tenancy by vacating the Property on the last day of the Term, or after that by giving the Landlord one month's notice in writing.

Once you have got past your 6m, then unless a new agreement is written, the tenancy goes to what is called a statutory periodic tenancy. Under this, the tenant may give 1 month notice, the LL has to give 2 months notice.

The LL has no need to do anything as it stands, you agreed to 6m and by law he can hold you to it. I don't think your 'notice' given to him is binding either.

You have had a serious of complaints about the property, have been under the impression that he is responsible for the efficacy of the heating system (he is not) He is responsible for maintaining it only.

During the 3m you have lived there, you have also dipped into arrears by up to £100, although this has recently been rectified.

Put it this way. If this LL wanted you OUT, HE couldn't get you to go unless he asked you nicely and tbh made it worth your while.

If you have otherwise been a good tenant and have fallen on hard times, he may agree to release you early. There was a poster on here recently that asked her LL to let them go early, and as they had been great tenants and I think helped find replacement tenants for him, he agreed. In your case however tbh, with the ill-informed assumptions of his responsibilities, and the arrears, it may be that his reluctance to carry out repairs when he is being mucked about may be understandable. I don't think he IS likely to let you go early.

The only potential in-road you have is to look into the deposit situation and the safety certificate. If he has not protected your deposit, you may have some leverage. If there is no GSS he could be in serious trouble, but starting to beat him over the head with this in an unstructured way is unlikely to endear you him.

Until that deposit is protected, any notice Section 21 served by the LL on you will not be binding.

Once it is, He can serve you 2m notice, at any time within the 6m, but that notice period can not end before the date on the AST. If he only served you on the last day of the tenancy agreement running out, you would have another 2m to go before he would be able to seek possession.

He could serve notice on you within the 6m under very specific and serious circumstances, but none of them are applicable to your situation.

FWIW, I searched online and found a forum where a LL was asking for help with a Tenant demanding to terminate notice (back in 2007) and this was the advice from the legal professional replying to the LL:

"Write to her and hand-deliver a letter pointing out that she cannot break the contract and that you will take immediate action in the small claims court once she misses a rent payment. Tenants like her really p _ me off! Her attitude sucks!

Whether she finds you a replacement tenant or you do is neither here nor there but you can charge her reasonable costs in finding a replacement tenant i.e. advertising, referencing, agency fees etc."

DEPOSIT:
Your deposit ought to be in one of 3 schemes.

Custodial Protection Scheme:
The Deposit Protection Service (The DPS)

Insurance Based Protection Schemes

My Deposits (Run by Tenancy Deposit Solutions Ltd)
The Tenancy Deposit Scheme (Run by The Dispute Service)

Read more: Deposit schemes

Contact them and check if they are holding your deposit. If it's not protected you may have cause to take him to small claims court for the money, your LL is potentially looking at a fine of up to 3x the deposit, though this can be hard to actually enforce, as he can protect your deposit at any time and not be fined.

You have not been an ideal tenant. He perhaps has not been an ideal LL, but if you are to get out of this agreement, you are going to have to be NICE, and HOPE that he lets you out of it. If you are going to try to use the deposit as a tactic, you will need CAB help to guide you.

You need shelter and CAB advice. They can help you understand the situation, your rights and how to negotiate your way out of this.

So, instead of sitting here asking us you need to be waiting in line to see the CAB, cos it's potentially worth a lot of money to you, or could prevent you being SUED for a lot of money.

I don't get the impression you are taking this very seriously. Starting threads on here is all well and good, gives the rest of us something to do, but YOU need to be the one googling how to end an AST early (practically no chance)

Now, you actually don't need any more info from here, you need to see CAB/Shelter, so please, stop opening threads and start doing your homework, meeting people that can realistically tell you what your specific rights are.

Good luck! Smile

LIZS · 05/01/2011 21:35

Well said LMHF. Hope you find an acceptable resolution op.

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