or is landlord? Please help

[DotheShakeNVac]

We have had loads of problems with the house that we live in, the landlord refuses to do anything about it so he suggested we find somewhere else to live. He advised that we can give notice once the rent is upto date.

we got the rent upto date and gave notice on the 22nd december. Both in writing and by email. We want to move out ASAP as the house is a nightmare and costing a fortune to run. so we suggested to the landlord that he lets us move out on the 15th january and we pay him upto the 22nd by letting him keep some of the deposit.

He had tonight emailed me back saying he is writing me a letter and copying in his solicitor, he says he feels like hilding us to the whole of the tenancy agreement and that he has never had so much trouble. So i phoned him on his mobile (from the UK to FRANCE) tofind out why he had reacted this way. he didnt explain himself apart from shouting at me saying to move out on the 15th and were not getting our deposit back and basically saying i am trouble!

I have no idea where this came from. he refused to get work done and so told us to find somewhere else. now he is saying we wont get our deposit and he is going to sue for the full tenancy?

The deposit isnt in a scheme. and there is no EPC for the house..

Please someone help?????

EPC is the energy performance certificate - this says how energy efficient (or not) a property is.

sorry x-posted!

It doesn't matter whether you call his mobile in France or England, the cost will be the same. The landlord will though have to pay to receive the call.

if you moved in 15 October and November rent was £100 short - I think I would be unhappy and wonder what type of tenants I had. Then if they give notice on the 15 December or thereabouts I would be unhappy as to having to find new tenants all over again, and the fact there is a 6 month tenancy agreemen. Not sure I would want to give your deposit back to be honest.

Can you take photos of the repairs that need doing in the house?

EPC is a very recent thing and may not have applied at the time you took the hosue on . The boiler was serviced and that would probably have included the Safety Certificate. However with an AST the term is fixed as 6 months minimum. He could hold you to that ie you should pay until April 15th, regardless of whetehr you think you have given notice . Also the notice is counted from the next date the rent is due ie. a month form 15th January. So financially you have a pretty weak case and reliant on his "goodwill" to terminate it before April. However the deposit should be in a regualted scheme and he has failed in his legal duty if it isn't secured. It can only be used for damages etc. Have you tried your local council housing office or Shelter, as I'm sure you raised a similar query a week or two ago .

What sort of meters do you have and which company is it with? how do you know the bill is £80 per month, have you already had a bill?

You can as tenant get grants to have draftproofing and loft insulation - this may be something to think about either for this house or another place

Unfortunately though the boiler was only 2 months older than when you moved in, at the point at which you were giving notice. Has anything actually broken on it or stopped working? If so, the landlord would have been obliged to fix it. If its just not as cheap to run as you expected that isn't something you can make him fix.
Your money should definately be in a deposit scheme and there should be an EPC.
He cannot withold your deposit, but equally, you can't not pay enough rent your last month, and tell him to spend some of the deposit. That is not what a deposit is.

ivykaty, that's not what a deposit is for, though.

You may find tenants annoying, but it is not legal to keep a deposit back because tenants were late in paying rent/defaulted early.

The OP's landloard is only allowed to keep the deposit if the property has been damaged, beyond the expected 'wear and tear'.

The law is quite strict on this and I think if the OP's landlord is ignoring this, he is most likely a bit shifty.

Just googled and it seems the EPC came in in October 2008 as part of HIP legislation which has subsequently been abandoned. He may have had a preexisiting EPC if he has let before your tenancy (they were valid for 10 years) which you should have been shown (but may not have realised what it was), likewise you should have seen the gas safety certificate when it was issued. Ypour previposu query related to whetehr you shdoul tell potential future tenants the issue, the simple answer being it should be self evident from the EPC and any bills you show. I assume the meters were read on 15th October and bills have been correct since ?

OK, stop mucking about. Get yourself down the CAB now. Failure to do so could seriously bugger up your chances of coming out of this as well as you could do.

1. Deposit: If he has not protected this, and failed to provide you with said details within 14 days of you paying that deposit, then you can take him to court and sue him for 3x your deposit. If he still has not protected it by the time notice has been served, I think you might have him over a barrel. CHECK THIS THOUGH!

IF the deposit IS protected, then you absolutely CAN NOT tell him to deduct any money from it to cover rent. The schemes do not permit this. It is no longer permitted BECAUSE of LL abusing this in the past.

I'm not sure about the legality of serving notice before the end of an agreement. I'm not sure that it has any legal standing.

Have a look on landlordzone.com

1. GAS SAFETY CERT: If he has not got one of these, this is an offence and he could be fined up to £20,000 IIRC.

1. Leaving Early AFAIK, he can hold you to the 6m. It is an assured shorthold tenancy. You signed and committed to a 6m period, unless there is a specific break clause in there, your tenancy is usually cast-iron guaranteed for 6m. If you leave beforehand, he has it well within his rights to sue you.

1. Maintenance: Your LL has the obligation to ensure that heating etc as provided are operational. Efficacy of these systems is not something he must guarantee. If it's working, and deemed safe, then tbh the inefficiency of it is hard luck. The only chance you have here is that he is not in possession of an up-to-date GSC, and the boiler system is NOT deemed to be safe. It may be that he has one, but has not provided you with a copy.

THE ONLY option you have is to get down the CAB and get proper help/advice.

Never mind the having to wait, this is important and could mean the difference between getting out of a commitment you can no longer afford earlier than you are committed to, or being sued for the money.

If your P is not working then he can get himself down there and get the advice can't he?

Basically, both you and your landlord are in the wrong - and the right.
You both have a set of rights and responsibilities by law, and you've both failed in some of your rsponsibilities whilst demanding your rights.

Tenants:

Responsibilities:

1. Must pay rent on time
2. Must give 1 calendar month notice (usually from day of month your rental period started, not from any random day you choose, eg if you move in on the 1st, must give notice by 31st of a month)
3. Must rent for minimum period on tenancy - usually 6 months - except if property actually uninhabitablee

Rights:

1. For property to be appropriately mainatained.
2. To be able to live in property at agreed rent for at least minimum time agreed.

Landlord:

Responsibilities:

1. To put deposit in agreed scheme. If this is not done, they can be fined 3 X amount of deposit.
2. To adequately maintain property. If this is not done, eg maintaining boiler properly, getting gas safety certificate, this can be a criminal offence ie he can end up in jail if he doesn't maintain the boiler properly. But insualtion, say, is not a legal req in the same way, ie not criminal - though I think legal changes are underway to require landlords to make properties conform to mimimum energy efficiency standards - not sure when these come in?
3. To repay the deposit (minus damage not attributable to normal wear-and-tear) at the end of the tenancy.

Rights:

1. To receive rent agreed for at least minimum term, as agreed.
2. To get property back in the same state it was received (again, taking reasonable wear-and-tear into account) once notice has been given.

Basically, you have no right to end your tenancy early - your landlord can allow you to leave, but is still legally entitled to the rent. However, he is required both to maintain the property appropriately esp the boiler (check you have an up-to-date gas safety certificate, and insist he buys a carbon monoxide monitor - that can KILL), and to put the deposit in a deposit proptection scheme - or he is breaking the law.

You can't expect him to improve the property to suit you eg insulation or decor - you can expect him to make sure it is safe, and that all appliances that were working when you moved in are still working.

Amd you need to pay the rent! To demand he does work wheb you are not paying the agreed rent is unlikely to win the sympathy of any judge. If you can't pay, you need to speak to Shelter - try to get on the housing list as a priority, as it sounds like this landlord will make you homeless whether you like it or not.

If you can afford to move somewhere cheaper, them move in April, once your 6 months are up. Or sooner, if your landlord really will agree to it (but get it in writing this time!). It doesn't sound as though he was serious about the initial suggestion - more a kind of threat to get you to stop bothering him, as he didn't think you'd move.

Good luck!

You should have a copy of the gas safety certificate, so you don't need to ask him if one has been done. You should also have a copy of a letter confirming that your deposit has been lodged in a Tenant Deposit Scheme. If these aren't in place he has broken the law and penalties are severe. Yes, there are issues around you wanting to terminate your tenancy early, but don't speculate about anything too much until you have taken advice.

Before you do ANYTHING else, and before you communicate with your landlord again, talk to Shelter. I'm speaking as a landlord.

As a bargaining point, since the LL has not protected the deposit, and the deposit is generally a month's rent, and there are three months rent to go on the contract, and the fine for not protecting the deposit is 3 times the deposit (ie 3 months rent)... calling it quits now would be good from all points of view?

(Did anyone follow that stream of consciousness? )

Was going to write what OldLady wrote. You can sue him for not protecting your deposit and your compensation is 3 times whatever the deposit was.

Use this as a bargaining tool if he threatens to sue you for not sticking to the 6 month contract.

You need to contact Shelter for advice btw.

OLNN, nice idea, but the actual chances of getting that money/fine/award are slimmer than you would think. Not to mention that it would take a while to get to court.

OP, actually Myleetleponey has mentioned Shelter, if you go on the website, you can email them and they will reply.

I would still recommend CAB though as well though.

LittleMissHissyFit, you're right, of course, but I wasn't meaning that it would actually go to court, more that the OP could say, "OK, sue me for 3 months rent on the contract. And I'll sue you for not protecting my deposit." Everyone gets tied up for months, and the most likely result would be quits, anyway.

And I said CAB/Shelter at the beginning!

ha ha, I know OLNN, course it'd cost to take him to court too.

CAB are brilliant. Shelter too, Landlordzone is a great forum and very open to help tenants too.

Hi all

thanks for your responses.

more info for you; The landlord told us that he would send someone round to look at the windows and noone turned up. then he buggered off to france on a long holiday over xmas new year and said we cannot contact him.

landlord then said we can pay the £100 we owe and then give him notice to leave and that he would accept it (i have this on email) we did this on 22nd december. he is now threating me with solicitors. All we have done is what he told us we could do!

I just want to leave now i have a 9mo & work to juggle and all is getting a bit to much for me.

Go and see the CAB.

Yes, go see the CAB and take along a copy of your tenancy paperwork. One months notice is not legal for either of you under section 21 of the Housing Act, despite your tenancy agreement.

Failing to put your deposit in a protection scheme is also illegal.

I had loads of crap with a previous landlady, it went on for 8 months and turned into a nightmare.

Nope - you can give a month's notice on a short assured tenancy - and if the landlord is going mental I bet its because he had found a tenant and was quite pleased to hear you give notice, and then has been let down and is panicking about money - personally if the deposit isn't in a scheme I would have underpaid the last month anyway and let him pursue me for repair costs - not me pursue him for my deposit back..

I bet he'll go quiet once you move out.

Trouble is you don't have as secure a moral highground as you had hoped, by getting into arrears so quickly I can imagine he was exasperated by your requests. He hasn't actually refused to help, it just didn't happen as you'd expected. If you have his email confirming you can give notice early and at a irregular date then take this and all other paperwork (including the solicitor's letter if it arrives) along to CAB (or similar) asap to ensure your response is appropriate and legal. Time is of the essence and I'm not sure why you have now not sought advice in past 2 days. It isn't clear cut and you need help to untangle it. Otherwise you may find that come later this month you are due to pay two lots of rent and are back to square one.

Heroine, Im pretty certain that it is not possible to give one months notice on any type of tenancy agreement.

I was on a rolling short assured tenancy and my solicitor said they had to give me two months notice on that. The court threw out their application to remove me any earlier.

thelastname what happened? do you mind me asking?

Oh yes you can - I have been in several two months is often required for landlord to give tenant moving out, even when one month is OK for tenant to give. In any case pursuing you for one month's rent is going to be a lot of hassle for him, especially if you dispute condition of flat - he will most likely cut his losses and get someone else in quickly rather than fight you.

Usually the temrs are one motnh on tneancts side, 2 on landlords but not before the end date of the notice would fall at end of initial 6 months ie issued end of 4th month for ll and 5th for tenant at earliest. After 6 months the contract can just roll without a new one being signed and the same notice periods and terms would still apply. Agree with others that the extract form your lease simply affirms it as a AST and does not refer to any alternative notice period.