Feminism - happy to change my mind

[BorisTheAlligator]

I'm a regular poster - I have namechanged as I could very easily get flamed for this. However, I am asking a genuine question and will change my mind if people can logically (not emotively) explain why.

Recently - in conversation and on the internet - I have noticed that very often, a man being slightly unfair to a woman is called a misogynist (even if the event in which he was perceived to be unfair in no way reflects his attitude to women in general). Mainly, if the roles were reversed, I doubt the woman would be called misandric - maybe a bit mean, but not misandric.

Then, anyone who agrees with the man is called sexist/antifeminist/a misogynist. The people who accuse other women (or men, as the case may be) of this, often come out with such things as 'he obviously knows nothing about women'. I mean, surely we're not all the same as each other and there is no special way of 'talking to a woman'? Tbh, I find that more offensive than most of the unfair things that were the issue in the first place.

I genuinely did think that feminism was about equal choices and rights for women - not 'men must always be nice to me because I am a woman'. Just to clarify, I am a woman and very much believe in feminism as I perceive it!

I'm not really asking AIBU, because I would expect quite a few YABUs. I'm just asking, really.

So I suppose I'm saying, following on from that, is that in some situations - like a man being unfair to a woman even if that doesn't reflect his general attitude as you said in the OP - allowing that to pass unchallenged contributes to the wider cultural issues facing women, by normalising behaviours even in generally non-sexist individuals.

But, it's the behaviour, and the cultural views that make it acceptable behaviour that ought to be challenged and not the person. If you start insulting people I tend to think you've lost the argument, although I know not everybody thinks that way...

I think there is a tendency on MN for people to jump very quickly to saying that the man is in the wrong, or is being oppressive, or abusive. It's similar with MIL/parent issues: you will always get a few responses directing you to books on 'toxic' parenting. But I think that's because people who've been hurt are rightly very concerned that what happened to them shouldn't happen to others. So at best they err on the side of caution and raise the possibility that a man is abusive, or a parent is 'toxic'.

LRD I see your point. I've been thinking about the definition of misogyny all week after spending 3 days with what I did would call one.

He was shocked that I thought that and said he made those sorts of comments (eg critical about appearance) about both men and women..(so obviously I called him a misanthrope instead).

I think there is a line, which is not often referred to, between attitudes which are generally disrespectful and patronising, regardless of which gender you are, and disrespectful attitudes that are dependent on the subject being female.

Examples of what I would call misogynistic:

Making generalisations about women (they need a female friend to go shopping, they are manipulative etc), women like to be....(whatever), expecting women to take the share of the housework/childcare etcc, and lots of the stuff that comes up on MN.

So, eg a man taking responsibility for finding a place for dinner (when out wandering together) - can be either misogynistic, if done thinking that the man should be take charge because he's the man, or else nice if it's done with complete respect and not every time.

But then, examples which are just rude:

Contradicting, correcting other people's comments. Giving unasked for advice. Belittling etc

What about men carrying bags? Opening doors?

I'm rambling and not making much sense I fear.

Maybe I should just lurk

Here's a thread I've been searching for for a while.

Someone on here mentioned something about a man forcing the issue in any way when a woman doesn't want to have sex and that this would be a feminist issue.

I don't disagree particularly, but was wondering what kind of issue people would consider it to be if I were to put pressure on DH to have sex if he didn't want it.

An issue of you being a twat and not respecting your partner in life.

I don't understand why you name changed to post this

They are valid points you make...have the courage of your convictions

I am a very vocal opponent of militant feminism. I detest it.

I do like having doors opened for me by a man and I like to be treated like a lady.

I also do not agree with total unequivocal equality. Men and women are different, and no amount of protesting will alter that fact.

I don't like some of the rhetoric used by some members of the feminist movement. I've heard women who go along with the structures and instituitions that feminists dislike described as collaborators. I also went to a university with a girl who was a great believer in feminism and likened the "patriarchy" to nazism. WTF?

I think feminist movements do make some valid points but attitudes like these make

SugarMousePink... I agree with your posts.

There's a general dismissive snottiness on Mumsnet from some posters who seem to have reached higher states of feminism.