to make granny do things our way

[mamateur]

We took over DP's nephew's care, permanently, 3 months ago. He had been brought up by his granny since losing his parents as a baby. We took him because he was behaving really badly at school, swearing at teachers, messing around with older kids who were less than kind to him, getting increasingly out of hand at home, and eventually refused school for 3 months of Y7.

He's settled in with us very well. We've got over some major problems at school, which involved him being put in a 'nurture' stream because he was unmanageable.

So we've given him firm boundaries and his behaviour has turned around. He's happy and loves his school, his teachers say he's handing in good work and there are no behaviour problems. But really we're just like a boarding school, he talks to granny for hours on the phone every evening and plans to go back 'home' every holiday. Who can blame him (or her), she's his mum in every way that counts.

One of the problems we are dealing with at the moment (picking battles of course) is his table manners. He eats with his face in his food, fingers on the prongs of the fork, licking his knife and generally appears to have been raised by dingos. Granny has perfect table manners, in fact she went to finishing school.

If this was a typical granny situation I would let her spoil him, but she has already spoiled him and we are sorting out the mess she made. I want her to uphold our nice eating rules (he doesn't even know how to hold his cutlery, he's not being difficult) which are fruit no pudding if no effort. And no alcohol (last year she gave him 3 bucks fizz on Christmas day. He was 11).

If he's asked why hasn't granny taught him if it was so important, tell him that granny was trying to teach by example and that perhaps he could watch how granny eats next time, and then see what happens. If she has beautiful table manners then he may just notice now.

Re the Bucks Fizz, YANBU to lay down the law on this at all!!

While at the moment he may still think of Granny's place as 'home', that probably won't last. He's only been with you for 3 months and he's made so much progress already. Give it more time and your place will become 'home', and granny's will be like a 'second home' or 'holiday home'.

I hope so, but am not so confident. We are like a boarding school for him! I didn't get the chance to speak to her when she picked him up but said we needed to speak on the phone asap. I'm going to tell her that we need her to apply certain of our rules in her house. I know lots of people have said I can't do this, but I think I can. She has always said she will do anything she can to help us. But she can apply the rule in her own way. So if she can think of a better way of making him work on his table manners without taking away his pudding (I don't think she makes puddings or if she did they wouldn't be much of an incentive ) then all the better.

Maryz, fortunately she is not at all defensive and very realistic about her parenting. In fact recently we had a conversation when she basically said she couldn't really describe what she had done as 'bringing up' at all. It's very sad.

I'm also going to say no alcohol at all. DP remembers her giving his brother money for birthdays and xmas etc. when he was 17 and sinking into alcoholism.

Its a hard one, but your are only 3 months in (ie not very long) and you are already seeing big improvements at school.

I don't think you can tell granny what to do, more like tell him that if you hear he's been making an effort with behaviour / eating then [some sort of treat] when he gets back to yours. And tell granny about the treat, and just leave it at that.

Why can't I tell granny what to do though? I don't think there's anything wrong with making his upbringing coherent, and she is a big part of his upbringing.

Every time I think about it I just get all . I'm going to call her now.

children will always be aware there are different rules at different houses, from a really young age, and they will work to those accordingly. just becuase she doesnt instil the same manners in him, doesnt mean he wont try when with you. what if he went to a friend's house for tea? would you insist on the same rules there?

i think you are making fabulous progress and it would be a shame to create tension at this time when you are going in the right direction.

YANBU to ask that she respects the no alcohol rule though.

Mamateur - what a wonderful sounding mother you are. It is a selfless thing you have both done for your nephew. All I thought of through out the posts was that it sounds as if he is a little like a suitcase kid, much like mine, going from mummy's house to dad's house. I cannot insist on my ex doing things my way and he is unable or unwilling to support my way of doing things. However, at 11 years your nephew, and my children, are bright enough to know what the boundaries are at your house and what they can get away with at grannies house. I would continue to insist on him following your sensible and loving rules in your house, and just put up with Granny not being quite so brave in backing you up. At 11 he knows what is right and wrong, what is good or bad. Boys are so sensitive at this age, and he will come through it with your caring guidance.

The drinking (sorry to those who disagree) is an absolute NO NO. I think your partner has to make that clear to his mother. There are some things such as alcohol, smoking, drugs etc that we have to take a firm line on, irrespective of our own private thoughts. I say this because keeping your nephew safe and out of trouble, giving him the support and space to grow into a wonderful young man, is the least of what he deserves. Three bucks fizz isn't on. I could accept one. But no more, and only on Christmas day!

Let us know how the call goes -

Like Maryz says you can't make her do anything but you can stress how important it is to be consistent. She knows she's done wrong and if she can be part of the solution it's better for everyone.

I'm glad to hear he's doing his homework too! Even if not necessarily up to scratch right now.

We took in my cousin at older than this, and there are things we don't expect of him, but other things just took a long time. He eats some veggies now!! After four years! When we got him he only ate White bread and meat pies. It is a huge slog and very difficult but the difference is astonishing and has done so much for him.

Have you considered videoing him eating and letting him 'see himself as others see him'?

As to granny, I sympathise. Drone on continuously that she's doing him no favours and if she really loves him she'll work with you to give him consistency?

Thanks all, so much good advice here.

I just talked to her on the phone. I waffled a bit about presenting a united front and then said we had been making a concerted effort with his table manners. I asked her if she'd noticed this area needed improvement and she said she hadn't (which I doubt but hey). I suppose she just felt a bit useless. She said he had said I was very fussy about table manners. I asked her to keep it up, so he knew it wasn't me being fussy but a very important part of growing up and going out into the world. She said she would and supports us fully. I said she could maybe talk to him about situations when it would be important to make a good impression etc.

More tricky was the alcohol issue. I said that because DN would soon be socialising more and since we live in rough old north london, alcohol and drugs would soon come into his circle. I said to control this we would need to build trust between us (DP and I with DN) so he could go to parties and promise not drink. We can't say don't drink if he is allowed to drink with granny as it would be a mixed message. Then later on, in a few years, we can let him drink a bit (as I did) so he can learn to drink socially. She said oh I'll think about that one!! So I said, we feel very strongly that you shouldn't give him alcohol as it sends the wrong message.

He never asks for alcohol so I don't know why she should want to give it to him.

Maryz, you're right, we make the rules now and something should stick. It already has.

Laweasel, interesting that you took in a child in a similar way, I thought you had good insight!

Whereyou, someone in rl mentioned that to me. I believe it would work (someone did this to me when I was training for my career and it shocked me - I never knew I was a hair twiddler! )

Mature, thanks so much for the words of encouragement! I quite agree on the hard line on alcohol - his brain is very young and forming. And I think if there is such a thing as an addiction gene, that family has it.

Thank you all so much.

Well, it was my parents, I was a teenager at the time, but yes. Talking about trying to reducate a teenager and what it was actually like are pretty different. If anything what you have done shows that we should have taken him in earlier and the effects might've been quicker. He was abroad so we didn't know how bad things had got.

With eating we concentrated on trying things as his diet was so bad and being polite about what was offered, and we absolutely bribed with cookies. (it works, so I have no issues with this)

Glad the call went generally well.

I wouldn't push the alcohol issue again this time, but just keep repeating it everytime he goes. You definately don't want to get into a situation where he feels he has to lie to you if he has been drinking, and if you keep repeating the message to Granny it will sink in eventually. (hopefully )

Congratulations, you and the granny are doing a fine job. So relax and repeat after me: "her house, her rules".

"Her house my rules"
"Her house my rules"
"Her house my rules"
"Her house my rules"
"Her house my rules"
"Her house my rules"
"Her house my rules"

well between you and me, DP and I just had dinner together and it was soo relaxing!

YANBU

It is sad be it sounds like granny has neglected him in some respects and you are having to pick up the pieces. He'll thank you for it one day. It is not a normal set up and you have to work on the lad and granny needs to join in.

Alcohol for (pre)teens is like chocolate for babies. They don't need it, it holds no good for them, it is just adults projecting their own desires at children which is plain wrong, unnecessary and can potentially teach them a wrong way at an age when it is important they abstain. If the lad has problems then he is vulnerable and the second sip of alcohol away from parental law and presence is usually accompanied by the comment "but we have it at xmas its fine."

Sounds like the lad has had a rough start, good on you for working towards a happy ending. Granny needs to get on board for the lads sake.

Ginger very well put and spot on- particularly the adults projecting their desires. For her, Christmas wouldn't be the same without drink but DN would rather play on his computer. I don't want alcohol on his radar yet. I think he is probably is quite vulnerable. We still have to deal with the issue of his parents - he still doesn't know how they died. I think it can't be long before he asks. I don't know who he'll ask.

THe other thing granny said was could we carry on giving him maths and french coaching. We are actually very qualified to do this (and will of course) but I said to her why not teach DN to go to his teachers for help?? He absolutely hates admitting any kind of failure or weakness so just sits in class not understanding anything then comes home to ask us (or not). She would like us to do it so he's not uncomfortable but I want him to overcome these things. Everything I say she says, oh yes you're so right, you're so wonderful, I appreciate all you do so much blah blah...