Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

to be very cross with ds's karate teacher

51 replies

MollieO · 10/12/2010 20:55

Ds does karate at school. Every week he is excluded from part of the lesson. Every week he tells me that he does not know why he has been excluded.

I rarely attend the lesson as I work full time. The odd time I have attended I see ds excluded but cannot work out why either.

The teacher called me by accident a few weeks ago (thinking I was another child's parent). I asked her why ds was excluded and whether she told him the reason why. She admitted that she didn't. I attended last week and ds was excluded and again she didn't bother to tell him why (and I couldn't see why)

Today was their grading. I wasn't able to attend so ds's grandma went (she goes most weeks as the class finishes too late to get to after school care). She told me that he was excluded again only this time he was called up to the front of the class and told off in front of everyone (packed class as most parents had turned up to see grading).

AIBU to think it is completely out of order to tell him off this week when she has never bothered over the proceeding ten weeks?

OP posts:

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 22:06

We are in Berkshire - Windsor and Maidenhead.

OP posts:

pigletmania · 10/12/2010 22:12

Good MolliO she does not sound very good at all. Dont continue, find another Shotokan Karate group in your area. There are good and bad teachers in everything.

Shodan · 10/12/2010 22:15

I would take him out, tbh. 17 children in one class is too many, I think, unless you're a really experienced teacher.

The exclusions sound unfair and petty. In our club they only happen for deliberate and repeated poor behaviour. This includes aggressive sparring, but can also include refusal to listen to and obey instructions (on a repetitive basis)- basically anything which goes against the ethos of the sport.

Look for a reputable club, preferably with NAKMAS accreditation, and go and watch for a few classes. No good sensei will object to this. It would be a shame for your DS to give it up - as joydivision said, it's a great thing for kids to do.

Incidentally the grading system sounds a bit odd- I've not heard of anything like this before.

Lindax · 10/12/2010 22:16

ds (6) has been doing karate for just over a year now and there is at least 20 in the class taken by one instructor. They are all aged 4 - 7ish and white to yellow belts.

At the other end of the hall is the orange and green belts aged 7ish to 11ish. Again there is about 20 to one instructor.

Both classes are very well handled and the numbers are not a problem for the two coaches.

ds class is quite strict (seems to be part of the karate culture/think the instructors role play quite a bit but the kids know this and are not intimidated iykwim), but he also gets praised with a subtle smile/wink/thumbs up when he does something well. He has been excluded and not known what for, but I have told him if he didn't know what it was for he couldn't have been paying attention - as time has went on he has learned to pay more attention and know what he is doing wrong.

This learning to pay attention and discipline is part of the attraction of karate for me.

He enjoys it and the disciplining doesn't put him off as he also gets enough encouragement too.

Think it depends on whether your ds enjoys the class/likes the coach enough for you to get him to work out where its going wrong or you move him on to another class.

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 22:21

"To make sure all of our students leave with an achievement, we award STARS ...Stars are awarded for the Basics, Kumite & Kata ...If all 3 are performed correctly the children will achieve the next Grade & Coloured Belt."

Less about achievement and more about wallet enhancement imo!

OP posts:

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 22:24

I wouldn't have a problem with ds being excluded for not paying attention but I know he does (although I'm sure he struggles to sit still). The teacher told ds and another boy one week that they were banned and if she saw them in her class again she would be very angry. She denied saying that when I asked her and said they must have misunderstood. Weird for two boys independently to tell their parents the exact same thing.

OP posts:

thenightsky · 10/12/2010 22:26

Mollie... who does the actual gradings?

pigletmania · 10/12/2010 22:27

This teacher sounds rubbish and not professional, get your ds out now.

JuJusDad · 10/12/2010 22:27

That's not a sensei that teaches those kids, it's an instructor who is ruled by money.

Sensei is a title that generally kicks in at third dan, indicates perfect technique, and an ability to teach.

There should be at least one other instructor in such a large class of kids, and FGS, the child is 6 - as long as the important stuff is listened to, who cares if belts get fiddled with?

And anyway, since it's shotokan they'll be learning solo kata, so it's not as if they really need to listen that closely - they can always crib off their mates.

If it were judo, they need to listen because techniques are practised on someone else.

And the bringing him out in front to tell him off when the class is full of friends and family for a grading? Unforgivable. Shows what a tragicly fragile ego that instructor has. Pathetic. Great way to put off loads of people from ever taking up martial arts.

I'd be sorely tempted to put a complaint in to the instructor's senior, or even better, the ruling body.

Glitterknickaz · 10/12/2010 22:28

I'd love to know which club this is too.

thenightsky · 10/12/2010 22:30

agree with JuJusDad

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 22:34

I assume she does the gradings. Don't know as this is only ds's second one and I missed the first one too.

She told another boy off today for clapping those who were awarded their stars!

I can't complain to the ruling body as I wasn't there to witness it myself. I just have others telling me what happened today, in particular my mum who is the most mild mannered woman you'd ever meet. She was absolutely livid and had words with the teacher.

OP posts:

Shodan · 10/12/2010 22:41

"Sensei is a title that generally kicks in at third dan, indicates perfect technique, and an ability to teach."

Got to disagree with you there, JuJusDad. It just means the head of the dojo. The instructor, basically.

"And anyway, since it's shotokan they'll be learning solo kata, so it's not as if they really need to listen that closely - they can always crib off their mates."- erm, no. They should listen to everything. Karateka also practise their techniques on someone else- in kumite.

But I totally agree with you wrt telling the Op's DS off in front of the grading class. Nasty.

JuJusDad · 10/12/2010 22:43

told off a kid for clapping? Words fail. If I'd been there, I'd have had a quiet and very firm word with her afterwards.

Hell, I instruct (I'm shodan - first dan) in a koryu (traditional martial art with 400+ years of history), and we clap on a grading being passed. It's rather formal and done right at the end on sensei's lead, but we do clap.

This instructor is harming all martial arts, and that's what got me riled.

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 22:44

This is the email I sent:

Dear Ms X

I understand that my son either did not do or was not allowed to complete his karate grading. I'm not sure of the reason why since I am sure you would not have entered him for the grading if he was not capable of achieving it. His grading book was not in his book bag. Since ds will not be continuing in your class next term would you please ensure that his book is returned to school before the end of term. Please also ensure you have completed your sections at the front and affixed a copy of the licence I have paid for in the section in the rear of the book. I have copied this email to ds's form teacher so she knows to expect the book.

Every week ds has been excluded for part of the lesson and yet, by your own admission (in your phone call to me when you thought you were calling C's mother) you have never bothered to tell him why. I am interested to know why you chose this week to call him up in front of the class and parents to tell him off and publicly humiliate him.

Unfortunately illness prevented me attending the class this week but I am truly shocked and disappointed by what has been recounted to me. If you had bothered to take the time to talk to ds over the preceding weeks and explain why you were excluding him you may have enabled him to achieve more. I am impressed by his strength of spirit that despite your attitude towards him every week he has wanted to attend class and been enthusiastic about learning karate.

Regards

OP posts:

JuJusDad · 10/12/2010 23:04

My bad, Shodan. That's one of the differences between gendai and koryu - so far as I'm concerned, I have one sensei - my grandmaster. Anyone senior to me is my sempai. I wouldn't consider myself a sensei until I get third dan, or for preference, sho den.

Excellent email, Mollie. I am sure your son will find a teacher who will do right by him.

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 23:07

Ds's instructor is a 3rd Dan apparently. If she were a man I think a better description would be a right Dick.

OP posts:

Shodan · 10/12/2010 23:14

She's a 3rd dan?

That just makes it even more inexcusable. Though I suppose you can be good at your discipline and still be a crap teacher. Maybe.

Hard to fathom though.

Shodan · 10/12/2010 23:16

It would be interesting to see if she's registered with NAKMAS. They have a list you can view on their website. Not that it matters, really, since you're taking your DS out.

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 23:29

Not registered with NAKMAS but website says they are registered with the Amateur Martial Arts Association and English Karate Governing Body.

OP posts:

Shodan · 10/12/2010 23:39

Ah ok. Not really familiar with them but assume they have a similar register.

Do you know if any other parents have similar concerns?

Original poster

MollieO · 10/12/2010 23:46

Yes afaik quite few will be pulling their children out and some have done so mid-term. As school supports the teacher there is nothing anyone can do other than vote with their feet. I think a lot will switch to judo as it is a smaller class and the teacher really understands how to get the best from his pupils.

OP posts:

cumfy · 11/12/2010 13:12

Are her initials DR ?

If so I've PMed the contact details of her originating school and her 6dan sensei, whom you might wish to copy in on the email.

Lulumaam · 11/12/2010 13:25

YANBU

part of the whole ethos is mutual respect and the teacher seems to go out of her way to humiliate your DS

how awfully sad

my DCs just started martial arts, the younger ones are in a smaller shorter class, with the main teacher (sensei?- he;s a 6th dan black belt) with 1 - 2 red belt instructors who assist the children. any silliness is responded to with quiet, but firm discreet tactics by the teacher. no embarassment, no nastiness. the end of every lesson finishes with thank you and bowing, and a reminder of respect for each other, the teachers, assistants and elders.
its' acutally really lovely !

DD v excited as she got her first stripe for sidekick.

it should be a fun , enjoyable yet disciplined activity and it is such a shame your DS has had a rotten time

electra · 11/12/2010 13:59

I would be furious and would remove my child from this setting immediately and put them in one where the teacher could actually be bothered. What exactly are you paying for here? For your son to be humiliated on a regular basis? The teacher sounds like a moron.

Flip

1 2 3