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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell DD that going for Micky Mouse subjects will not land her in uni!?

28 replies

MrsSnowman · 09/12/2010 11:20

DD is 14 and is preparing to take her options. She wants to be a nurse yet is struggling academically. Her current levels for English is 5a, maths is 5a but her science is 5c. Now when she's been talking about her options she's been saying that she'll just "not bother" with science and instead do a health and social care diploma at school and then a health and social care national diploma at sixth form instead of any A-Levels. I think she's trying to take the easy way out and I think she'll get a shock when she applies for uni.

AIBU and out of touch?

OP posts:
blinks · 09/12/2010 11:22

can you afford a science tutor to help her or maybe organise a study group?

Original poster
MrsSnowman · 09/12/2010 11:25

Can't afford private tutor unfortunately and she's not interested in any "extra" studying. This is what I mean, she's not interested in academics at all and I'm really struggling to see how she will cope with uni.
The school have told her that the H+S care diploma is "ok" to get into nursing but when she's up against 5 GCSE/4 A-Level students - who are they going to go for realistically?

I'm a strong believer in the traditional subjects and I think the diploma is going to be a bad choice. Sad

OP posts:
RamblingRosa · 09/12/2010 11:25

Does she know what she wants to do long term? Could you show her some of that stuff that was published recently about the subjects universities will accept and the ones that they will reject out of hand? I think it was the Russell Group universities that published it. It might make it clear to her how far she can get with different qualifications.

If she still wants to do it then I guess you have to let her make her own decisions. All you can do is make sure she's as well informed as possible.

SantasENormaSnob · 09/12/2010 11:26

Have a look what the Uni expects for nursing.

It used to be a min of 5 gcses including English, maths and science. I did a levels and got on first time (about 8 years ago!)

I know loads that did the health and social care dip and also got on first time.

RockChick1984 · 09/12/2010 11:26

Maybe contact a university who offers the degree she would want to do, and just ask them if they would accept these qualifications? But (playing devils advocate here, and I don't want to sound offensive) is nursing going to be a suitable career choice if she is struggling with science at GCSE level? Is she likely to struggle too much with it at a higher level? I agree that extra tuition may be a big help to her xxx

GreenButton · 09/12/2010 11:27

I think she can get away with 'one mickey mouse' subject (and I'm not saying that Health and Social care is) - she needs to get the core qualifications for what she wants to do, She needs to check on the requirements that the universities would require.

frgr · 09/12/2010 11:28

"the H+S care diploma is "ok" to get into nursing but when she's up against 5 GCSE/4 A-Level students - who are they going to go for realistically"

I'm sure it wouldn't depend on that, but basically it seems like your DD would have to work harder to show she's a good candidate to go on the course. I.e. showing better character through volunteer work, extra-t activities, basically having to work so much harder to prove herself - but of course A-Levels aren't suited towards all children and if she could potentially fail them and not get into uni then, really, the best thing might actually be to do the diploma AND back it up with the other stuff I've mentioned to round her up a little as a candidate.

if she's been told it's ok to get onto a uni nursing course with the diploma, you can't go against that, but you can highlight the IMPLICATIONS of it at admission time i guess :)

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time trying to convince your DD to do what's best in the long term!

SantasENormaSnob · 09/12/2010 11:29

It's also worth noting that experience is looked at when applying for nursing.

She would be as well to do voluntary or join a nurse bank as a hca.

bluecardi · 09/12/2010 11:30

sounds better to do the health & social care diploma as more on what nursing is about. Could she contact a nursing course to see qualifications she needs?

ginnybag · 09/12/2010 11:30

You are not out of touch. Nursing is an academically tough course now and not for someone who struggles with sciences.

RN's have to do a lot of maths, technical stuff with drug prep and are required to write and read some very detailed papers.

Those courses won't get her on a nursing course. She'll need science and maths GCSE's and she'll need A-Level's.

Because, aside from anything else, if she can't cope with those GCSE's and A-Level's, she'll never cope with the degree level work.

Have a look at search.ucas.com/cgi-bin/hsrun/search/search/StateId/QC0miojC2mEKRSJXucjVOhaGV5G-3-UcGI/HAHTpage/search.HsProfileDetails.run?n=1019611#1-3[

for more information.

Ephiny · 09/12/2010 11:37

Agree that if she's not especially academic she might be better of doing vocational subjects then getting some work experience, if she applies for nursing as a mature student with caring/healthcare experience already, that will carry more weight than what subjects she did at GCSE.

Or she might decide a nursing degree isn't what she wants to do after all (especially once she finds out there's science in it!). Academic A-levels and Russell group uni isn't necessarily the best path for everyone, she should do what suits her best.

PunctuationPixie · 09/12/2010 11:38

Yes, she is kidding herself. I work at a university and the minimum requirements for our nursing degree are currently

  1. 240 UCAS tariff points including a minimum of a C in a science or social science subject.
  2. 4 GCSEs which must include minimum Cs for English Language and Biology or Combined science.

The courses are popular as they lead to almost guaranteed employment and heavily oversubscribed.

There is another route in where you can get a DipHE in Nursing then 'upgrade' to the degree course, but we have a lot of mature students who use that route in, so competition is just as fierce.

I think the school is unrealistic if they think a H&SC diploma will get her in.

Doigthebountyeater · 09/12/2010 11:39

5c is ok for science. I used to be a teacher (secondary). Level 5 = a C at GCSE so even a low level 5 doesn't need much effort to get a C or above. Also she will be expected to move upwards over the two years as well. Furthermore, all C grade students get lots of support over the GCSE years as the schools rise and fall over who gets five Cs and who doesn't. She could certainly be looking at decent passes in English, Maths and Science if she puts in the effort (stern teacher face).

sethstarkaddersmum · 09/12/2010 11:39

if she's not interested in academic things at all surely she shouldn't be planning to go to uni?

Sidge · 09/12/2010 11:49

I think if she struggles with sciences then she may struggle with the nursing degree. Nursing is now much more 'sciencey' than it ever used to be and increasingly academic.

I don't know much about the H&SC diploma, but having looked here I think it's not quite as good a grounding in science as single biology would give her. It seems to focus more on the social aspects of health whereas for nursing whilst that's hugely important you need an initial understanding of human biology, with some knowledge of chemistry.

I would certainly recommend that she seeks out opportunities for care work as well, as that will stand her in good stead at interview.

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 09/12/2010 11:50

Really, though, she's very young to be committing herself to an specific career path... and given that it'll be another 4 years before she applies to uni, it's a long time ahead to try and predict what the entrace requirements might be.

So I wouldn't push your DD towards science GCSEs and A-levels simply to increase her chances of getting into nursing. If she does ultimately find that the H&S diplomas aren't sufficient for the courses she wants, there are lots of more academic alternatives to A-levels available for students 19+ - for example, HEFCs, foundation degrees and university foundation year programmes. Many, many nursing students are in their mid-20s before they apply, so there's no rush...

GrimmaTheNome · 09/12/2010 12:07

she's not interested in academics at all
...
...
when she applies for uni

Confused Hopefully the ridiculous state we're in now where non-academic kids are supposed to get degrees will start to be sorted out in time for your DD.

Surely there should be some form of nursing which is vocational rather than academic?

CoventryCarole · 09/12/2010 12:09

YANBU because it's true

beanlet · 09/12/2010 12:12

Ignore the school -- they will have NO IDEA. Have a look at the websites of a few universities who award nursing degrees and diplomas. That will tell you what she needs.

For example, King's College London require at least 2 A Levels at Grade C, preferably one in a science subject, and they require a Grade C in GCSE English, Maths and Science.

Just knowing that she has to take these GCSE's to get into her chosen career should sway her, I reckon.

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 09/12/2010 12:16

Many universities run taster courses for school pupils considering all sorts of vocational degrees, where the kids accompany a current student to lectures and learn never to eat at the canteen. Your DD might benefit from something like that to help her decide whether she'd be interested in/could cope with the academic side of things. If she comes to decide that it's the more practical caring aspects she's drawn to, I'm sure she could get some work experience/voluntary work in a nursing home/care home/hospice helping with making beds and washing patients and she may decide that she would prefer a career as a care assistant or support worker. There are so many non-academic healthcare jobs out there, and a H&S diploma would be really good preparation...

beanlet · 09/12/2010 12:16

(To qualify that's for the BSc you can take the diploma route as a mature entry, which is less about academic qualifications.)

adrenalinejunkie · 09/12/2010 12:25

If she is not academic the health and social care diploma would be the better choice and IMO it is not a mickey mouse subject as it opens doors to a wide range of jobs . You can do a diploma in nursing and then do a years course to turn it into a degree . The best thing to do would be to get a part time job or agency work in nursing homes as this will count a lot towards a nursing course. I am speaking from experiance ,a couple of years ago I applied for a nursing diploma and got accepted into Carlisle uni ,my gcses weren't the best but I had a very good reference from my manager . One thing I will say though is to see if your daughter truly wants to work in the healthcare proffession and is aware of what the job entails before doing the healthcare ,if she isn't too sure than traditional subjects would be best .

monkeyflippers · 09/12/2010 12:33

I think that usually kids should just study the gcse's etc that interest them as it is hard to know at that age what job you want to do, what gcse's you need to do it and also if you study something you like you don't always know what jobs that could lead to. So generally I think it is best just to do what you are interested in. If she has really made up her mind though then she should really study science. If she is unwilling then maybe she doesn't really want to be a nurse that much.

This said though, I had a terrible science teacher and was actually quite good at it but got terrible grades because of the teacher. Are you sure she is being properly taught and encouraged?

Ephiny · 09/12/2010 12:39

One consideration is that she can always do GCSEs and/or A-levels later if she needs to. Though as I mentioned, degree course requirements are often different for mature students with work experience, so in that context the diploma may be acceptable.

14 is very young to be making these decisions though, isn't it :(

I still wouldn't pressure her to do something she hates; if she really doesn't like science and has no interest in academic things, she's likely to have a miserable time and not do very well. A-levels in particular would be a real struggle if she's not interested or motivated - I did A-level biology and chemistry and seem to remember they were quite hard work and there was a lot to learn.

Ephiny · 09/12/2010 12:47

I wouldn't disparage her choices as 'Mickey Mouse subjects' though - yes you need to make it clear that her choices now will affect her options later on, and that nursing degrees have academic requirements including decent grades in science subjects.

But that's not to say the health and social care diploma is necessarily a bad choice for her, or that working in another caring role is inferior to a graduate profession - surely we have a great need for good carers and if that's what someone wants to do, and would be good at and feel fulfilled by, I wouldn't want to put them off.

And life is long with plenty of opportunities to retrain and career-change (I speak from experience here!) so you don't necessarily have to have your whole life mapped out at 14, or have it determined by choices you make at that age.

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