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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Higher Education is not a right, it is a privelidge

116 replies

hairyfairylights · 08/12/2010 13:43

Although I do think it's something which ought to be funded (at least for the less well-off).

I do believe in HE where it's appropriate, but I also know that HE doesn't necessarily make for a better, richer, more fulfilled life either!

OP posts:
MerryMistsmas · 08/12/2010 15:10

What LeQ said at 14.42.

LeQueen · 08/12/2010 15:10

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hairyfairylights · 08/12/2010 15:17

woops apologies for the mis-spelling - I got an A at o level in English Language but that and a few other words still scupper me!

Well done you Santa. I am prettey awestruck at your achievements.

I got four O levels (A, C, C, D) and one A level (D) and did a secretarial course at Poly.

I have worked my way up to the post I now hold (CEO) and I enrolled at forty in Uni to do a PT masters degree (accepted on the basis of relevant work experience and ability to write) I was diagnosed with Dyscalculia for the first time, and I actually achieved a PG diploma because I was unable to do my dissertation due to other issues.

I was lucky in that my work place sponsored me to do the course, and gave me time off to attend.

I was totally inappropriate for uni at 18 - and didn't have the grades to do it - but the compulsory education system failed my as dyscalculia was never spotted - I had failed maths O level four times (and had a tutor for six months).

OP posts:
hairyfairylights · 08/12/2010 15:19

is your brother single LeQueen?? Xmas Wink

I was going to add that doing a degree would not have helped me get where I am today and I'm glad I'm where I am. What got me where I am is good communications skills, adaptability, good management sense, and pure drive.

OP posts:
Gotabookaboutit · 08/12/2010 15:24

Hairyfairylights - Me - I could have gone to uni - am very academic but find it boring instead have had loads of fun, instead of teaching English Literature for 25 yrs

Gotabookaboutit · 08/12/2010 15:25

And do admire those that do teach - just not for me!

SantasMooningArse · 08/12/2010 15:49

Goodness I am nothing special, just got lucky I think a few times along the way.

'at least 60% - could do with a real dose of 'real life' work ' I suspect many would love to- I started nurse training abck when teh enw system was embryonic (pre-degree but post SRN / Enrolled) and like a great many the complete lack of actual work sent us running for teh door after 18 months of training: there's only so much 'observational study' in Asda (I jest not) one can stomach as part of nurse training.

SantasMooningArse · 08/12/2010 15:55

Oh and personally I think every course should run an assessment in tehir field for every applying student so that ability is assesed rather than stability of childhood / school performance / etc. Students who do put in the work are disadvanatged by teh current systems when tehre are too many wasters about- poor DH is a mature student helping with the boys, runnning his own business and studying full time but a lot of his degree is assessed on group work and it seems that unless he takes the wrorkload off many of the younger ones they can;t be bothered and then they all get a low mark even if one or two people's contribution is complete. There was a group submission due Monday that people finally got to DH to collate at 2am that morning with such glaring errors as one paragraph for an entire subject, and the wrong VAT % (a business studies module) and he was told that if it went in like that they were all failed.

How does that work then? Confused. One person carrying six? I know DH's degree in fact will be better in some ways as he has taken on things like student rep and sits on teh board meetings, but why on earth should lightweights get the same award?

(can you tell I am annoyed and might like my poor Dh to sleep sometime LOL)

NestaFiesta · 08/12/2010 16:00

Education should not be a privelege, or elitist or expensive. It should not be only for the well off. If you have to be rich to educate yourself and your children then you will end up with a country run by over priveleged upper middles who are out of touch with the working classes.

Oh... wait...

Gotabookaboutit · 08/12/2010 16:00

SantasMooningArse - your ''goodness I'm nothing special'' makes me smile - so many of the women who keep this country, running TA's, carers, good teachers , good nurses, school secretaries etc say that - We do not respect practical skills and hard work enough in this country. We sure as heavens do not pay it enough!

christmaseve · 08/12/2010 16:12

I haven't got a degree, I left education when Uni was generally for the middle class kids with educated parents. Full grants in those days, if only I knew then what I know now. Went on to study later, the best qualification I have is at today's level 4 (1st yr degree) which I did at night school without much effort.

Hence I don't earn much but get by. I want DD to do so much better. However, I can spell privilege, without googling Wink

lovelyopaque · 08/12/2010 16:46

If there were plenty of jobs available for 18 year olds, then university would be something that was for a smaller minority. However if there are few jobs for 18 year olds, then there has to be provision for them to acquire the skills and/or knowledge they need. That is a right. Now personally I don't think that need is best met by university for many, but something to fill the gap between school and work is, today, a right.

LeQueen · 08/12/2010 16:48

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MulledWineandGingerbread · 08/12/2010 17:08

If access to HE is to be limited and only 10 or 20% are to be allowed to study at university, how would you suggest that the places are rationed? I'm always hearing people say that "Uni's not for everyone" and "you don't need a degree to get a good job" but, funnily enough, I don't think that's what the careers advisers at Eton, Marlborough et al say. So unless someone can find a way of making sure that the precious few uni places are kept for the most able, rather than those with the right connections, or those whose parents can afford for them to be coached to pass uni entrance, then I think drastically reducing uni places would be catastrophic.

And is it just me, or was anyone else shocked by the figures yesterday showing that in the last 5 years, one Oxford college had not admitted a single black student, and all the Oxford colleges together, last year admitted one British Caribbean student? Angry

LeQueen · 08/12/2010 17:13

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MulledWineandGingerbread · 08/12/2010 17:25

Of course - everyone who went to uni in the good old days was the cleverest of the clever, and no poorer children with untapped potential were ever left out.

And loads of parents who fork out squillions to send kids to "top" public schools would be delighted if their offspring went on to do apprenticeships.

LeQueen · 08/12/2010 17:30

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Trifle66 · 08/12/2010 17:40

HE is a right however it has to be earned through hard work !

MulledWineandGingerbread · 08/12/2010 17:45

LeQueen, I dont think it was an awful lot. Maybe the lucky or brilliant few. Not many children from the poorer social classes went to university in the days when only 10% or so went, certainly not in proportion to the nmber of middle and upper class children who went.

And the scrapping of EMA is going to take us back to those bad old days anyway. If you can't afford to stay on at school or go to college and do A Levels, you're probably not going to uni anyway. I'm starting to think that this policy is even more shameful than the HE fiasco.

SantasMooningArse · 08/12/2010 17:48

They really didnlt in huge numbers LeQ: not one from my Primary went, and one from my comp.

It wasn;t even mentioned as an option- mand as you must know, if nobody in your ffamily has been someone has to inspire an idea.

But of course people are less academically intelligent, usually they have soemthing they can do as well- I can study but am useless at sport or engineering- and avaiilability of technical and practial quals also needs to be high.

And valued.

And there are no certainties about anything bat sicteen for many people- people bloom late or find their path.

FellatioNelson · 08/12/2010 17:55

Mulledwine - Oxford can only admit those who apply, and can demonstrate the required level of intellect. Are you implying they are turning down people purely on the grounds of ethnicity?

It's easy to say 'isn't that a shocking statistic' but without knowing the breakdown of who applied, and with what grades, and how their personal statements read, and their interviews came across, it's impossible to make a judgement about whether Oxford was at fault there. Universities (especially top ones) go out of their way to encourage people from very diverse social/ethnic backgrounds to apply - and frankly they move all sorts of goal posts to make it easier and less intimidating for them, but they can't drag people off the street just to get their quotas up!

The fact is, many people are still put off applying to top/oldest universities because they have a strong preconception that they are elitist and full of upper-middle class white kids. It can take a long long time for that impression to be eradicated.

Besides, there are plenty of non-white people there. As you are talking specifically about British people of Caribbean heritage, I feel compelled to point out that they tend to show poorly across all stats where educational achievement is concerned (in comparison to every other social/ethnic group except truly working class/disadvantaged white boys, who I'm quite sure, should anyone bother to look, have had a pretty poor representation at Oxford in recent years.)

I agree it's a worrying statistic, but pointing the finger at Oxford is not going to solve the problem.

inkyfingers · 08/12/2010 17:58

I don't know if my DCs should go to university, but I don't see lots of career-orientated jobs/training schemes for 18 year olds who don't have the grades or don't want to go. No wonder most go to uni if they can get a place to do any course at all. Lots of jobs requiring A levels are now asking for, or getting a degree from those applying.

MulledWineandGingerbread · 08/12/2010 18:03

Fellatio - the figures seem to show that even if you factor in for there being fewer applications, the figures are still poor, see: www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/oxbridge-elitism-oxford-cambridge-race-class?intcmp=239

And things like "how their personal statements read, and their interviews came across" - isn't that part of the problem? If you've been to a school which coaches you on Oxbridge entry, on interviews and writing personal statements and enables you to experience a vast number of extra-curricular activities, then perhaps your interview and personal statement will be better. It doesn't necessarily mean you're a better candidate though.

MadameDefarge · 08/12/2010 18:04

I was a late developer, academically, for various reasons, and only got a B and an E at A level. I went on to do a degree, worked in publishing, became a marketing consultant and now run my own business.

By many snobs thoughts on this thread I should have resigned myself to making coffee for a living.

Snotty, nasty, and uncalled for. You all need to rethink your ideas that the vast majority of people are as thick as shit and so not deserving of higher ed.

MulledWineandGingerbread · 08/12/2010 18:04

Sorry, I meant to put that in as an easy link, here