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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be unhappy with a childminder

42 replies

heartmoonshadow · 07/12/2010 17:18

My child goes to a childminder who in the main is very good. The problem I have is that I rely on the fact that she takes holidays in the year at which time I do not have to pay her.

I understand that I have to pay her on retainer whilst I am on holiday and I am not disputing that but this year she has not taken any holidays at all, although I do know that she has been away during my holidays therefore I am effectively paying her holiday pay. This is not in the contract although neither does it stipulate that she has to take holidays. What I am asking is an I being unreasonable to say to her that as I am off 20Dec for two weeks and that she will also be off during this time (and she will not have the other children anyway) that I would consider this her holiday and therefore not have to pay her?

OP posts:
Vallhala · 07/12/2010 17:20

Depends how much you value her and how much you want to keep her I'd imagine.

Desiderata · 07/12/2010 17:23

I agree with Vallhala.

If you don't pay her, you'll probably piss her off, which is never a good mood to set with someone who's looking after your kids.

Is she expecting to be paid, or are you just projecting?

taintedsnow · 07/12/2010 17:23

I think it sounds a bit petty tbh. She has done you the favour of taking her holidays at a time that is good for you, and you want to avoid paying her for two weeks. Sorry, I know that's a simplistic way of looking at it, but if you value your CM, consider that may be how she sees it.

This could very well spoil a good relationship.

rookiemater · 07/12/2010 17:25

Call her bluff.

We had a lovely childminder but it seemed to me on the invoice that she was attempting to charge for 2nd Jan which is a bank holiday in Scotland. Fair enough as DH and I rarely get any time together I said I would drop off DS on that day so DH and I could go to the cinema. I was told then that she wasn't working that day and we weren't charged for it.

However we always tried to get our holidays to coincide with the childminders as it was so convenient not having to arrage cover when she is away. Why don't you ask her what the position is if you are both on holiday.

Notquitegrownup · 07/12/2010 17:27

I think that YABU, although I don't know why her contract doesn't stipulate that she is entitled to paid holidays. My child minders always did. Childminders are surely entitled to paid holiday, like any professional. It's lovely if they happen to take their holiday when you do in that it saves you money, but you wouldn't expect your boss to stipulate when you could take your holidays would you?

fedupofnamechanging · 07/12/2010 17:27

I don't think that you can tell her that you will not be using her service for two weeks and that she must consider this her holiday time. She could then say that she will have your child on 20th Dec for all the days that are not bank holidays during the 2 weeks you are off. You will then be in the position of calling her bluff.

Really it is upto the childminder when she takes holidays, or whether she takes them at all. I think you could ask her when she is planning to take a holiday, so you can sort out time off work, but really you are choosing not to use her service for 2 weeks. What she does during that time is up to her and you will have to pay her.

It's like your boss telling you that you are not really needed for a couple of weeks, so you won't be getting paid. You would be unhappy with that, so you can't think your CM will view it differently.

KangarooCaught · 07/12/2010 17:28

So you'd like CM to take holidays instead when you ARE paying her?? And thus send dc to another CM and pay her instead??

Or perhaps CM is very very kindly taking her hos to fit in with yours??

Or have I completely misread this?

Original poster
heartmoonshadow · 07/12/2010 17:28

I suppose you are right it is just that I have recently found out in error that she charges me considerably more than others in her care. (She accidently put a bill in my child's bag which showed the hourly rate to be way below mine). I just wondered if anyone else felt she was unreasonable not taking holidays - BTW I get 13 weeks so she gets paid for not looking after him very regularly and I just feel she should give a little leeway.

OP posts:
KangarooCaught · 07/12/2010 17:31

The hourly rate could depend on age, I guess, or whether they are f/t, p/t or just pre and after school.

KangarooCaught · 07/12/2010 17:32

Sorry for double words/punctuation but am typing 1 handed whilst feeding - it makes my post look v aggressive!

taintedsnow · 07/12/2010 17:33

Do you know why she charges you more? Does she have your LO more than she does the others? Perhaps the others are family members etc.

I'm not really sure where the exact issue is here tbh. Would you rather she took the holidays and then put you out, having to find alternative childcare?

If you really think she's taking the piss, make a point of it with her.

Original poster
heartmoonshadow · 07/12/2010 17:34

Kanga, my problem is that this year she hasn't taken any holidays at all and I have been paying full retainer when I have holiday. She told me when I started using her that she took 4 weeks a year during the children's holidays from school which would be none chargeable and as this coincided with my holidays I though this would be good idea. Anyway what has happened is that she has had holidays at the same time as me but still charged. I haven't kicked up a fuss but I do feel duped and I wondered if people felt it suitable that I ask her to actually take a holiday, to be honest if she took a holiday in term time I would probably cover it with my husband but at least I wouldn't be the only person she minds for paying whilst everyone else has weeks off paying.

OP posts:
Reality · 07/12/2010 17:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fedupofnamechanging · 07/12/2010 17:36

I think that you could ask her why her hourly rate is different for the other children. There may be a good reason.

When you started the contract, you must have agreed the hourly rate and considered it a reasonable amount of money for the work she is doing.

I can see why it would annoy you to be paying more, but I would try to set aside thoughts about the other parents arrangements (difficult, I know) and consider objectively whether I thought she was worth what I was paying and whether I was happy with the service she is providing. If not, then by all means raise it with her. If you are happy, then I'd leave things be.

It is hard to find a good CM who meets all the needs that you have. Be careful not to cut your nose off to spite your face. You could sour a good arrangement and be left looking for alternative childcare.

Reality · 07/12/2010 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
heartmoonshadow · 07/12/2010 17:42

Reality, I do take up a full time space but I pay full rate for (what I expected to pay for anyway) 48 weeks a year so the point I am making is she already has 11 weeks when she gets full pay for no work.

I did think her hourly rate was ok at the beginning but I think I am being taken for a ride, I would question how many 'professions' get paid for 46 hours work per week even when for 11 weeks they do nothing for it? I understand she needs the retainer my arguement is that I think if she says she takes 4 weeks and says she won't charge then it is unfair to take holidays and charge. It does say in the contract holidays are non-chargeable but at present she tells me she is not taking holidays - I think though as has been suggested I will call her bluff and send him for a few hours a day it may prompt her to decide she is on holiday after all.

OP posts:
fedupofnamechanging · 07/12/2010 17:44

Another thing is that if you are term time only, she would find it hard to fill the place during holiday time. Having a child just in the term time may actually be costing her money iyswim. Might explain the higher hourly rate

ItalianLady · 07/12/2010 17:46

You sound pretty resentful so it might be tim for a change in childcare.

PandaNot · 07/12/2010 17:47

Childminders are not entitled to holidays paid for by you, they are self-employed and you pay for their services. The same way you don't pay them sick pay or NI contributions. They are not employees. If you've signed a contract saying you will pay them for holidays then that's fair enough but they are not entitled to it.

Original poster
heartmoonshadow · 07/12/2010 17:47

Karma believer I pay a full retainer during school holidays so she gets paid for not looking after him so it makes no difference to her.

I am going to spend this holiday looking for new child care I think.

OP posts:
SantasENormaSnob · 07/12/2010 17:48

So send him a few days when you have hols then she isn't taking her leave at the same time iyswim.

My childminder contract is similar, we pay when we take hols but not when she does. I don't begrudge this btw as I am off next week but ds will still go 3 days so I can shop and wrap pressies etc. She is also working over Christmas but not the bhs

Zipitydoda · 07/12/2010 17:53

I pay my childminder 4 weeks holiday pay and I pay her when we go on holiday. It never occurred to me that it isn't fair; perhaps I shouldn't have to pay when we are away. BUT she is excellent, works longer hours than me ( I drop off before going to work and collect after DS dinner) so I don't resent it.
I WOULD resent paying significantly more than the other parents though and would query why. Maybe they pay some by DD from childcare vouchers and only get invoiced for remaining amount.

fedupofnamechanging · 07/12/2010 17:54

I'm not really sure why you are paying full rate all the time. A retainer is something like half pay, to keep the place available for you.

Agree that if you are paying for all this time then she has to be available to work, in which case I would be using some of the hours that I was paying for. If she was not happy to do a few hours every day, then you could then fairly say that you are not happy to pay full rate for 11 weeks that you are not using. If her contract states that she isn't paid for her holiday time, then you wouldn't have to pay for time that she is not happy to work.

I think this arrangement has already soured for you, so perhaps it would be best to have a meeting with her and maybe renegotiate some terms.

didldidi · 07/12/2010 18:01

I don't understand why you would pay for a service you're not using? if you pay full rate then you might as well send him?

jendot · 07/12/2010 18:07

I would say from now on that you will need her to have dd for some hours over the school holidays....you are paying in full for full school holidays...so you can use them if you want to and have given her adequate notice of this presumably yes?

SO if she is going to be away at any point over the school holidays can she let you know (in advance) so you can make sure not to arrange 'work' on those weeks...then you will know when she is away and won't need to pay her.

For this to work you will need to send dd for some of the time you are 'off' work.

From my point of view YOU are in the wrong not the cm. You are paying for the service but NOT using it...because YOU choose not to. the cm is actually not taking ANY holiday as she is getting time off while you are away (tbh most parents would see this as a bonus) why should she take it as holiday when it is YOU who are choosing not to use her service.

I think you sound very bitter towards your cm aswell and really if you dislike/ resent her that much then you probably should look for alternate childcare. I do think you may find that you will have to pay 'full time' at all nurseries/ cms and with a nanny though.