To get a night nanny or try sleep training?

[LoveRedShoes]

Please help! My DD is 17 months and has never ever been a good sleeper - she has never EVER slept for longer than two or three hours in a row on a night, and that in itself would be a big treat. She wakes several times during the night for hours at a time, and we are coming to the end of our tether. I am at the point where I am just getting to sleep and it is time to wake up. I have been barely functioning as I am like a zombie, and DH (who is a good help) is getting so tired he is not 'on the ball' for work. We are both intelligent people, adore our DCs, and have tried EVERYTHING and read EVERYTHING we can on this. Nothing works.
With DS (also a bad sleeper) at least he would co-sleep with us, so even though it was not ideal, I was happy to do that and we managed to get at least some sleep. DD will not sleep in with us, she wriggles and wants to play.
She is not upset particularly, just very very clingy and wants to be rocked or walked around with, and will not lie down. SHe is not like this during the day.
I have tried all the usual stuff, we have a bedtime routine, room is dark and quiet...tried background noise...no heating noises...shorter day naps...earlier and later bedtimes...etc....
So... what is the most reasonable next step?
AIBU to be sooo desperate that I am thinking a bit of 'crying it out' might help? I don't really like this method, (tried it with DS in desperation and he would just cry until he vomited, and I felt cruel). Or, do I use all of our spare cash on getting in a night nanny, so we can at least get some sleep, even if we are much worse off. DH thinks this is unreasonable, as at the moment, we can't really afford this.
I am so sleep deprived, I can't think straight. I am starting to feel ill all of the time. Please help!

She hasn't been on a lot of antibiotics has she? I have heard a couple of times about toddlers having taken longterm antibiotics which have killed their guts.they are ok during the daytime when they are moving about but feel uncomfortable when they lay down- yogurt with soem bacteria in (can't remember its name) has worked miracles.

No - no medicines. She is teething, but tbh this is not noticeable as she was always awake anyway!
Thanks guys - feeling a lot more confident about trying this again by myself.

I did cc with DS2 at about 16 months, after 6 months of progressively more disrupted sleep after teething and colds. Very similar to orangina's story. Gradual withdrawal had not worked and I was up twice a night with him for and hour or more.

CC was hard, but only took 3 days. The longest he cried was about 20 mins. I used the Toddler Taming method - went in after 2 mins, 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, put hand on his chest asaid go to sleep.

It annoys me when people refer to "leaving to cry". It isn't like that at all

I also did cc eventually (was desperate and hallucinating with sleep dep), after a few days (3 or 4) there was a HUGE improvement. I also treated it like a task, but what I did was comfort her then once she was quiet I waited about 1 min then said night night and left the room and WALKED RIGHT AWAY. Im sure my daughter (prob about 10 months then) knew when i was waiting outside the door almost as if I didnt really mean it. When you walk away do it with absolute confidence , no wavering...Im sure they can sense it! When Id walked away I then did a small task eg wash a few dishes, tidy bathroom, put some washing on etc so that at least something was achieved even if it wasn't my main goal of sleep! If you can ( I couldnt) try to get a relative or friend around the next day for an hour or two just to give you a rest so you're calm starting it again the next night. A glass of wine helped too!!
Also think night nanny would do a form of cc anyway. Try it yourself, Im sure it will work and you'll feel very empowered. Hugs

I did not stay in the room either. Tried that and it did not work. Ended up sitting on the floor freezing to death by the door and then him waking up again when I got up to leave!

Just to add, when you go in, you just wait until they are calmer, but don't hang around too long.

I think that whatever method you use the success is in the approach. So you start it as a 'project' you agree with your dh who does what.

If you could get some help for just one night so that you feel strong enough to do it properly. I think any of the methods will work if you do it consistently and you believe in it.

Good luck op. You'll look back on your zombie days fondly, honest!

YANBU

You must be on your knees with exhaustion and it's doing you, your marriage and your DC no favours at all. They need their sleep to grow and develop properly and you need your sleep to be a happy and healthy mummy and partner.

Forget the £££ night nanny you need to tackle this head on yourselves.

There are many options from CC to other methods. How about sitting in the room just being present but no eye contact or picking up etc and using gradual withdrawal. Crying-to-vomit is highly manipulative behaviour and if it comes to that follow the advice above and clean up with no chat, eye contact or talking.

CC worked for us and gave us all the gift of uninterrupted evenings and nights (bar illnesses obviously)

Agree with QueenofP, Elibeth Pantley is the way to go. ALl the results of controlled crying but none of the upset. Really worked for us, ds was exactly like your dd

I'm a very hippy parent in many ways, co-sleeping, breastfeeding over a year, no dummies etc. However we did cc with DS1 when he was ten months. We had the bedtime routine down fine but he would wake at about two and just stay awake. I was a wreck. Cc took three nights. I went back after 1, 2,5,10 min. Longest he was left was 20 min and he was done by the end of that. I read a book and watched the clock. DD has been easier but doing a very similiar thing now at 13 months so I started last night. Did 2 min, went in, stroked her hair, shushed. Did 5 min, same thing. Went back after another 10 and she was asleep. You have to know they are properly tired and not ill or teething but it is fine to do. Good luck!

If you are looking at millpond etc, I also recommend Andrea Grace for individualised sleep plans and phone support.

Could she have a food intolerance and it is something you are either feeding her or allowing her to drink?

Try a process of elimination on her drinks first.

Thanks- will try the Pantley book. Any quick tips from there to help with tonight !!!
She is not really getting upset - just not getting back to sleep, or if she does fall asleep on my shoulder, will not settle in the cot.
How does cc not cause abandonment issues? Not being flippant, just that this is my fear.

I can also recommend the sleep clinic, Millpond. Our 13 month old was up most of the night and would only fall asleep while being fed, and with their help he was sorted in 3 nights. I really would recommend it as the way forward and I can confidently say that calling them saved our sanity. CC involves going back in at regular intervals, so the child feels reassured, rather than abandoned. My son now sleeps fantastically and is really secure and settled in all ways. DS2 on the other hand, well he's 8 months old and his sleep is rubbish!! Probably will do some kind of training with him but he still feeds in the night so will probably wait for another couple of months.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

I understand this is an old post but it's very relevant to me. Apologies if this is against protocol on mumsnet but I'm a Dad, with little to no patience at the best of times and am running out of understanding as to why my 9.5 month old is actually getting worse at night sleeping as time goes by and want to find out a bit more about controlled crying or sleep training.

My wife and I tried it one night and to be honest I became scared as the baby sounded like she was crying and sobbing so much I thought she might choke so called it off and my wife went in and picked her up to soothe.

She goes to bed at around 7pm and usually will sleep unbroken until around 10pm. After this it will be every hour until my wife brings her in our bed with us. I understand why she does this but it's gone from an occasional occurrence to every night. Once in with us she's better, perhaps every couple of hours on a good night.

Well meaning in-laws advise us of stories with their children where it took a couple of nights of crying it out or tough love whatever you wish to phrase it as for a greater good. I read the above thread with hope that a few nights perseverance will yield some results longer term.

One quick question to get us started, when baby cries and we re-enter the room is the aim to stop the crying each visit only for it to start again upon exit?

The reason I ask is the one time we tried it, it didn't appear to matter whether we were in the room gently touching and trying to soothe or not, only when she was picked up did she pause crying only to resume once put down again. I'm just trying to ascertain what I'm trying to achieve on each revisit to the room.

Sorry once again for the old post, I'm not a troll just an increasingly ailing first time Dad.

Hullo F. 9.5 months old is very young to expect a baby to sleep through (and people have different ideas of what "sleep through" looks like!)

Make sure that safe co sleeping is taking place then just go with it til your baby is older. That's what I would do. Adjust your expectations, accept that baby at the moment needs closeness. Good luck.