to think that vegetarians will not be happy until farm animals are extinct

[mrleebob]

Let's face it. If farmers can't sell them, they have no purpose to keep them. So they become near extinct.

Would it be so terrible if breeds of animal which have been developed specifically to provide high meat or milk yields did become extinct? They are not well adapted to life other than on a farm, and yes, if everyone became vegetarian then farmers would no longer keep livestock. Other than perhaps in a few "petting farms".

But then, how likely is it that everyone becomes vegetarian suddenly? More likely, there will be a gradual increase in vegetarianism as meat prices increase, and more people eating meat less often. So there will be a gradual decrease in the number of farm animals.

Extinction of one breed of an animal is a long way from extinction of the species as a whole.

Sort of Yanbu. I used to be a vegetarian but started eating meat partly because I couldn't stand being lumped together in the animal extremist camp.

Not that I care whether cows (etc.) go extinct. Although I would miss the nice creamy milk in my cuppa.

PETA would be happy if the domestic animal was eradicated, that's for sure. When even relieving a sheep of its wool is wrong there aren't a lot of good reasons to keep hold of them

Oh good grief. I do feel sorry for your wife.

"You have misunderstood. The majority of farm animals are bred for the sole purpose of being food. Where do they fit into the earth if not for food products?"

Contraceptives mean endless babies are never born, too - I do hope you fight that evil with the same zeal and vigour. If the animal is never born, then what difference would it make? And some pigs are wild, some cattle would be needed for dairy, and some chickens for eggs, anyway. Unless you are conflating vegan and vegetarian your argument fails on almost every score.

I am not a vegetarian, incidentally. I eat meat myself. But I accept there are real moral issues around the subject.

As to "all animals have lovely lives..." most dairy cows have awful lives, much of the time. They suffer frequent mastitis and they become very distressed when their very small calves are removed from them. Meat is not kind to produce unless you spend more money than most of us have on places like Shedbush Farm. I try to buy from local farms which have very high welfare standards, but I am very aware that not all animals are treated that way. Meat production is something most people try not to think about. I've no issue with eating it, we're part of the food chain, but until we can provide better welfare standards across the board I think lecturing vegetarians is somewhat... misguided.

I tried to make a point that eating meat is the only reason some animals extinct. I've had a lot of experience with vegetarians who have indeed tried to force their opinions upon me. One in particular pushed to have a cafe remove all its meat products.
I appreciate that some of you have different views. However, I don't really appreciate those of you who instead of giving logical debate took to making personal attacks at me. Cheers for that.

I meant some animals exist.

That is true about the woman, plus she also wanted people to feed their pets no meat?! We have two snakes and she wanted us to feed them vegetables!!!

However I have explained to mrleebob that he hasnt gone about his seious debate in the best way, by trolling earlier...

This is one of the funniest aibus I've ever seen, just for the title.

It's funny for so many reasons.

Well done op :o

oh man up, mrbob

I've just started driving after a 6 year hiatus. Not at my behest. And I do care if animals become extinct. I like meat. But I'm also not an environmentalist. All though half of this forum appear to be, minus the environ.....

I'm vegan. I'm working on making certain types of human extinct, waaaay before I turn my attention to farm animals.

Besides, OP, has it never occurred to you that dogs and cats are domestic pets in this country and not part of the food chain? I.E. that they are not considered consumable and yet still they are not extinct.

Wool?Eggs? Milk? And countless dairy products? And the fact that most people eat meat..... the animals should be safe for a while

A lot of the point of vegetarianism is to highlight that we should consume less meat with higher welfare standards. And also that it is a choice not an obligation to eat meat. It is not about everyone becoming vegetarian and farm animals dying out.

Vegetarianism peaked in the early 80s when factory farming was getting a grip on the Uk farming industry. It is reducing now and we have greater organic farms and better welfare standards to choose from.

I would suggest those facts correlate.

Vegetarianism is a personal choice for many reasons not just the so-called logical argument of everyone becoming vegetarian.

Some people just cannot stomach the thought of eating something that is dead. Others make choices appropriate to their belief system. Many veggies would prefer that animal welfare is raised in people's consciousness and people as a result make better choices about what they choose to buy instead of allowing the gravy train of cheaper and cheaper meat to be produced and everyone thinking this was a good thing. Awareness is everything, without it people can't make informed choices.

I will be first to offer to adopt a farm animal as a pet once us veggies have our way. I've always fancied a sheep in the garden.

My mum has been veggie for decades and when she brought me and my brothers up she had no issue with us eating meat. She said it was to help us grow heathily. I've always believed it was a personal choice.
But there is a school of thought that says if you can't face killing it, don't eat it.

Why does it bother the OP so much what people choose to eat or not eat?

Following the logic in the first post lion and tigers and bear should be extinct. Oh my!

I am vegetarian and I have never forced my opinions on anyone else.

I agree with Riven. If the only reason an animal exists is to be eaten, well it's probably better off never having existed.

The reason I became a veggie 23 years ago was to do with the way the animals were kept. There was not much free range, having a lovely life in the fields meat then.

I would like to be vegan, but I think that's beyond me.

I think you misunderstand the logic, pingpong. Large areas of upland are given over to the sheep, at some effort to the farmers. If nobody buys the sheep they won't maintain the uplands for them. There will be no habitat. No habitat equals no upland sheep. They aren't wild animals like tigers. They rely on humans to provide grasslands. They aren't carnivores, either. They can't prey on other animals.

I assume the OP is pro-life, then.

Frankly, a humanely raised Aberdeen Angus steer has a great life. If slaughtered humanely it will probably die more speedily and painlessly than most humans dying of cancer.

Wild animals don't die great deaths. I often hear rabbits screaming in the woods. They are being killed by foxes, I imagine.

"I used to be a vegetarian but started eating meat partly because I couldn't stand being lumped together in the animal extremist camp."

I find that a very strange statement.

I have been a vegetarian since the age of 4 as I hate the taste of meat.

It has never occured to me I may be part of an "extremist camp"!

mrleebob - its a bit of an odd theoretical question but the farm animals of the UK or even the world would not become extinct just because we stopped eating meat.

For example, wool and leather and milk are valuable commodities that would still be needed. Our animals would be bred sligthtly differenlty and some breeds would become more or less popular but animals would still be farmed.