To expect a proper nativity play?

[ilovehens]

Last year ds2 was in some sort of Christmas Play, something about Rudolph the Reindeer and his friend Ralph. No nativity play. This was in Reception, he is now in Year 1.

ds1 attended the same school and has just left and they always did a proper nativity play and had the traditional songs like Little Donkey and Oh Little Town of Bethlehem etc. The school also put up nice Christmas decorations and the hall looked festive and cosy.

I have just attended ds2's 'nativity' play today and it wasn't very good. No Christmas decorations, just some tree in the corner, the play was about a star and was very disjointed and confusing. There was no atmosphere or anything. The children sang their songs and did very well, but it just didn't feel right and it could have been any play at any time of year.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I just think that the traditional songs make it so nice. ds1 attended as well due to his secondary school being closed and even he was disappointed and confused as to why they don't do a proper play anymore.

I'm not a religious fanatic, but just think that it's a shame things have to be updated to the point of not being recognisable.

I know I'll probably be flamed by the secularists, but this isn't a religious argument, just a point about traditions really.

Haven't been to a Christingle service since ds1 was a toddler. Will look in to that.

"I'm not a religious fanatic, but just think that it's a shame things have to be updated to the point of not being recognisable."

I am not a Christian (anymore) myself but am of the same opinion as you. It seems to be a trend , not only for children plays but adult ones too. A friend of mine went to see a charity nativity for the Salvation Army (I think) In a famous concert hall in the North wesat. the nativity was "re interpreted" I would say into something to do with Jesus talking back about his birth and how his stable upringing helped him getting A* in his GCSEs ?!?!? Apparently the angels were dressed as cheerleaders as well. I just do not understand that.

My DD's school don't do a nativity play, they do a winter performance. I think this is mainly because the school has a high percentage of Muslim children. I think it's lovely as it means all of the children can get involved and noone is excluded. There are still a couple of songs about Santa as far as I can tell, I can't wait to see it!

That sounds a bit weird gorionine.

I wish people weren't so squeamish about Christianity. It's a huge part of the heritage of this country and has helped to shape us.

They should just get it over with and make us a secular state and stop all this faffing around. Like the other aussie poster said, it's just neither fish nor fowl.

Endlessly updating things just dilutes the message and it becomes a travesty. They should stop pretending.

Muminthecity, I am a Muslim but I do not understand the need to change your beliefs or traditions in a bit to make it more PC or some such, it is ridiculous.. My dcs do not do the nativity because I cannot tell them on one hand that Jesus is an important prophet to us but not the son of God and on the other let them sing "hurray he is born the son of God!" it wouldn't make sense but I have no problem with my children watching their friends doing a "proper" nativity play and actually enjoy it because as long as they do not get involved I have no problem with them knowing the real story behing Christan celebrating Christmas. I think the nextt Generation of Christians will have no idea what this celebration is about and it is a bit sad.

I hate this backlash to a problem that doesn't even exist.

Nativity plays are for churches. The majority of people in this country don't believe the Nativity story, and Christmas is not about the birth of Christ for them.

Why should their children be forced to act in a play which is only designed to appease a small religious minority? It's political correctness gone mad!

Sorri was supposed to be in a bid not in a bit in the first sentence of my previous post

I hate nativity plays so I'm really grateful not to sit through another shite performance of a probably made up story in the name of religion.

Tradition can shove it up its hairy arse.

well if they shouldn't do Nativity plays because it's a story - then they'd better stop singing about Rudolph and Father Christmas as well. You know they're only stories don't you.......

I think the issue comes that if you're going to call it a Nativity play then it needs to incorporate the Nativity (even if it's in one of the modern adaptations). If it's not going to incorporate that then just call it a Christmas Play.

Although I see that the OP says it was the Out of Arc one so it was a Nativity.

Is it a Catholic school?

I agree with MrManager, religion is for church, not school. I am very happy that our school does a christmas concert and not a nativity, as it would be one more thing my children would be excluded from.

Schools should be secular, not forcing one religion on everyone else.

I don't mind the alternative plays we've seen such as christmas with the aliens but even I'm struggling with this year's festive treat entitled 'What a grumpy kipper!'

Is doing a nativity about making children Christian? I always assumed (as did my atheist parents) that I participated in the nativity at school as it was a cultural rite of passage, transmitting an important, but not necessarily factually true story. I think it's a massive shame to break this tradition, and the tradition of singing well-known carols, which I still love to do on Christmas Day with all the family. It's about having something common to join in, not professing belief.

Its about joining in with a Christian ritual. How is that not about belief? It may be a cultural rite of passage, but its not my culture, its the culture of one type of religion.

I have no issue with nativities, just not in school. Go to church, go to sunday school, but don't take over hours and hours of school time with a story that makes no sense to a lot of us. And its not just any old story.

Plus, the nativity story doesn't seem that great a message.

"My husband wants us to take a donkey ride to his hometown but I'm 30 wks pregnant. AIBU?"

a Christian ritual

it's acting out a story from the bible first said to have been done in Italy in the 1200's when hardy anyone could read (or understand latin). Instead of learning about the Christmas story from the bible it was put on as a play.

If your children do RE at school and learn about important religious stories from all beliefs then this is just an add on to that.

The animals in the nativity play aren't even mentioned in the bible, and if you do believe the story then you'll know that it didn't all happen in a night - the entire story took about 3-4yrs from start to finish.

Nativity plays in schools is a pretty "modern" phenomena

MrManager - if you don't believe it fine. But they had to go to Bethlehem for the census and pay taxes (in the bible anyhow).

And actually I think it's quite a good message

"I'm engaged, I've just found out I'm pregnant and I don't know who the father is - I just know it's not my finance's. Instead of going absolutely mad at me and having me stoned (the common punishment for adultery round these parts) he's sticking by me and saying the kid is his"

Yeah, BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree, a great message - "my 14 year old wife is pregnant with another man's child but I'm claiming it's mine so she isn't stoned to death".

well yes the stoning to death bit is shit no matter what way you look at it. But 14 may be young by our standard - but pretty normal around the world (I believe in Spain the age of consent is 13).

"Childhood" didn't even exist as a concept 300 years ago let alone 2000yrs ago anywhere in the world.

So if your argument is about the "teenage" (another extremely modern concept - mid 1900's) marriage and pregnancy is a bit weak.

And btw - the bible makes no mention of her age - 14 is just based on the cultural norms of the day

Still reads better than "my 14yr old wife is pregnant with another mans child and I'm having her stoned to death" surely????

My children don't do RE, my son sits at the back of the class drawing while the others do. Hence why I'm glad there isn't another thing he has to sit on the sidelines for.

And saying the nativity was/is a way to teach the bible to those who can't read is precisely my point. I don't want my children learning these stories, presentded as they are as fact.

Childhood as a concept as always existed, there have always been differences acknowledged between children and adults . Just not in the modern sense.

Yes but the modern definition of childhood is a socially created concept. (and the whole subject is skillfully argued by scholars on both sides of the argument (As it has been throughout time) and as such past infancy past that children were viewed as participants in an adult world. So it's makes sense that in the time that they were viewed as "mini adults" that allowing them to marry and have children once they hit puberty made sense I'm sure.

As such I'm not sure it's really possible to debate the subject of Mary being probably aged between 12-14 and already being married and pregnant in the context of modern Western views. Especially given that some western countries can't even agree one when a child is mature enough to make crucial life decisions/take responbility.

(I blood loved this topic in my course I started earlier this year - sadly I had to drop out as the later course cotent was far too close to home in content, but can't wait to re-start the course next October For the first time in my life I found myself gripped by history (of childhood).