To be surprised at how little British people seem to know about Ireland?

[WriterofDreams]

I'm from Ireland and I've lived in England for a total of two years. In Ireland we watch all the British channels and get all the British newspapers so most Irish people are pretty up to date on everything that's going on in Britain. Also, the Irish news tends to mention Britain a lot, so even if you only watch Irish tv or read Irish newspapers you'll still get a lot of information on current affairs in Britain.

When the whole thing with Ireland going down the pan financially came up on Channel 4 my mum rang me to say "Ireland's on the British news!" and we knew then it must be bad, simply because Ireland is so rarely mentioned over here. Now I know it's a tiny country but it's a close neighbour of Britain and a large population of Irish people live in Britain, so I would have thought it was reasonable that there would be a fair amount of mention of Ireland in schools and in newspapers and on the tv. But that's not the case.

Since living here it has struck me that so many people don't seem to know basic facts about Ireland, such as who the President is, who the Taoiseach is, what the native language is called, what the native sports are and so on. I've noticed in primary schools (not sure about secondary) that Ireland is rarely mentioned as part of history or geography despite the long and complicated historical links between the two countries.

Would it be fair to say that there isn't much mention of Ireland in Britain? Do you feel you know much about Ireland? Not saying we're special or owt, just curious.

"Ugh don't get me started on people from Brey and Greystones trying to sound like they grew up in Killiney or Donnybrook."

I don't think that's what they're trying to do - there's a special accent you get from around Shankill/Rathmichael/parts of Bray/Greystones/Delgany that is WAY WORSE than anything you'd hear in D4.

Although you're making me think of the Claire character from Ross O'Carroll-Kelly - the one from Bray who wanted everyone to think she was from Dalkey :o

Think they use "messages" in Scotland too - my friend who grew up there used it recently & twas like a blast from the past...

When I moved to "Southern Britain" first I used to get teased for how I said "column"!

One phrase I always notice now that I have been living away from home for so long is "They would be going/doing/etc" - iirc it's a direct translation of one of the Irish tenses that isn't really used in English as it is spoken in England?

Cross posts on the "column" thing!

Intresting, I think I agree OP.

Mind, I grew up 60 miles from Wales where I live now and knew zero about the histtory of ehre either: have ahd a steep elarning curve just to keep up with the boys school. So it's not just Ireland. My experience is that the way history etc is done for schools, unless you take a very specific module (I did an A Level equivalent in American history) then it's entirely Bristish, and almost all (if not all) English.

Nah babybarrister, no one has an obligation to know anything about anything really, was just looking for a chat and some reminiscing about Ireland.

Spidookly I imagine there is going to be some shlaps when it comes to wordage in our house - although DH did slip up one day and say yo-ghurt, and I'm never going to let him forget it! I fully intend to win that battle, although I'd imagine I'll be mum rather than Mammy or Mommy as that's what I call my own mum.

I agree on the "they would be going" etc but and Irishism I absolutely can't stand, which is directly translated from Irish, is "They do be" as in the "They do be laughing all the time at him" Ugh it grates on my brain.

One Irishism I use a lot though and one that I find very useful as it doesn't seem to have an English equivalent, is "I'm after seeing/doing/giving." It's a direct translation from Irish "Taim tar eis e a fheiceail/dheanamh/thabhairt." I found it surprisingly hard to explain it to my Welsh friend as its meaning is quite specific. It basically means that you have just done something but you only use it when someone queries what you've done or you regret what you've done. Knowing when to use it is quite hard for a non-Irish person I think.

The same goes for the word "so." The same Welsh friend was very interested in my use of this word, but it took me months to teach him how to use it correctly. I don't feel like explaining but here is one context in which it is correct:
DH: I'd love a packet of crisps
Me: Well go and get one, so.

"Although you're making me think of the Claire character from Ross O'Carroll-Kelly - the one from Bray who wanted everyone to think she was from Dalkey"

She is who I was thinking of,I know her type.
I also know the accent you speak of from Greystones and Rathmichael. It's a bizarre one. I think it's from trying to immitate the SoCoDu/D4 accent and it becoming bastardised by their natural Wicklow (culchie) twang.

Also Southside riveira FTW

"They do be" as in the "They do be laughing all the time at him" Ugh it grates on my brain."

Ugh the worst saying in the world. Only Skangers and morons say it. It's an instant indicator that the speaker is an effing idiot.
It makes them sound so uneducated and so stupid, it's embarrassing to think someone would associate Ireland with this type of speaking.

I have admitted that my knowledge of Ireland is bad. Will read properly when I get time.

Sorry my last post could be read to seem like I was castigating your use of "ugh" in fact I was agreeing and adding my own "ugh" before berating "They do be/I does be/ They did be"

DH also does this thing, as do his family, where he breathes in as he says 'yeah'. It's like a reverse sigh, and only when he's agreeing with something you say. Do other Irish people do it? Or is it a family thing?

Bit harsh there mayorquimby! Its actually a direct translation from the Irish, and its very common in some parts of the country, they do be saying it all over, certainly not just "skangers and morons".

Its interesting how language shapes thought. In Irish the sense of ownership is different from in English. In English you say "I am hungry" in Irish you say "there is hunger at me". In English you say"I have a car" in Irish its "There is a car at me".

Yes, chickens, they do! I stopped noticing it a long time ago.

Chicken I bet it is a reluctant agreement Yeah, I do it.
I also use the word like,
It is like really cold here today but the snow is melting

WoD, in our house the general remark made by one who has been asked to do something is 'Right, so'. This is also used frequently to mark the end of an exchange,leaving the recipient of the remark in no doubt that this conversation has ended.

The wordage used in our house is very Irish, even though DH has lived in England for over 20 years (almost half his life), so none of us realise we're even using non-English words and phrases. My English family (Irish Nan) have always used Irishisms, so I think they trip off the tongue without noticing.

Laughing to see someone else using the phrase 'shlap' (I'll give you such a shlap in a minute...)

PMSL @ mayor

skangers, morons, and culchies - you're not allowed to call people things like that on MN

Writer - do you know what I said once by accident?

It just came out of my mouth before I heard it like an big sound monster - LONDONDerry!

The colleague I was speaking to gave me such a ribbing.

I would never say yogh-urt, but the same wouldn't be as bad.

Hm. I can kind of see where you're coming from OP, but then ... there are a lot of countries in the world.

I'm from SA and I used to be shocked and annoyed with all the particularly douchey comments/questions I got from people in the UK when I first arrived. For exampe:

• "how can you be white if you're from South Africa?"
• "why aren't you tanned?" (this is in the middle of the British winter, more than a year after arriving and the idiot saying that knew this)
• "do you speak African?" gnnnnnnnnnnnarrrr

or just the morons who think Africa is a country rather than the continent.

But, it annoys me less now. Obviously, people should know about countries outside their own, but then, where do you stop? I honestly know very little about most Asian countries and struggle to find some of them on the map (though got much better after a particularly slow period at work when I played the map game on sporcle for hours on end). They just haven't entered into my sphere of interest. Likewise Ireland. I have some idea, but very little, about the history of the country. I also have very limited knowledge of British history, despite a History degree from a British university (though can talk at length about Renaissance Venice, should the need arise).

There is hunger ON me.

Although it's just that the pronouns work entirely differently, it's not really accurate to say that Tá carr agam means anything like "A car is at me"

It just mean, "I have a car"

And also "don't be at me" is it's own phrase, that I think is another Hiberno-English one. (meaning don't be annoying me)

I quite like "I do be" actually, it reminds me of people who say "doobie"

I love all weird idioms for all places. I pick them up and keep them for future use, so I sound like some kind of 6 year old's collage a lot of the time.

Abso - do they ever ask you if you've been to North Africa? Do they think that's the other country?

Nah, I haven't been asked about that. Though I did over hear a particularly moronic individual talking to a bathroom attendant:
"so, where are you from?"
"Nigeria"
"Wow! I love Africa. It's such a great country with such an amazing history".

They were from Texas though, not British.

Dh's saying when in need of food is "I've a hunger on me that'd bate Bannaher"

Even he doesn't know what it means. Can anyone enlighten me?

"PMSL @ mayor

skangers, morons, and culchies - you're not allowed to call people things like that on MN
"

It's an Irish thread. We can call each other anything. Sure isn't all just a bit o craic to be sure. "

"Its actually a direct translation from the Irish, and its very common in some parts of the country, they do be saying it all over, certainly not just "skangers and morons"."

The fact that it's a direct translation is an excuse for anyone living in or around the Gaeltacht region. And it may be harsh but it's how I react to hearing that phrase, it just makes me think the person is unbelievably stupid. It's the same as when I hear an American saying "I could care less", just sets me on edge.

This hunger is so strong it would beat Banagher, which is a town in Co. Offaly (back there again :o)?

There might be some historical reference, but it could just be the pleasing alliteration.

you lot want to visit liverpool, we seem to have bastardised two languages in one go.

Don't know whether you would feel more at home or utterly horrified.

Although everyone refers to the Republic as "the South" including the Irish!

Ah, thanks Spidookly.

The brother in law lives in Offaly (Tullamore area). Perhaps it originated there. Is there any particular animosity between Tullamore and Banagher? (Apologies for spelling it wrongly first time) Or are they very greedy there? Or were they very hungry? I'm going to go and see if there is any historical famine-related information on Banagher.
Wow, mumsnet can be so educational.

Well, yes it does mean I have a car, but the originating phrase is not constructed in that way, which is my point. It's a tiny difference but linguists acknowledge it and its interesting (to me anyway).

Its like studies of gendered languages and the impact on thought and meaning. In german a key is masculine and in spanish it is feminine. When asked in English to talk about a key as an object, German speakers used phrases like hard,jagged,metal, heavy, ;while Spanish speakers used phrases such as little, shiny, golden, intricate, lovely, and tiny. To describe a bridge, which is masculine in Spanish and feminine in German, the German speakers said fragile, peaceful, beautiful, elegant, pretty, and slender,and the Spanish speakers said sturdy, big, long, strong, dangerous, and towering.

I find that utterly fascinating.