To think the vet practice is in it for the money?

[QuietTiger]

Long story short, our cat had to go to the Emergency Vet last night (Sunday). His usual vet uses an "out of hours emergency service" which covers most of the various vets practices out of hours in our city. When I initially rang up on the phone, I was told by the vet nurse that "The out of hours fee is £70 before examination and treatment". Not a problem for us, the situation was urgent enough that my cat needed to see a vet and we have the money available (although my DH did mutter something about fecking cat always costing money, bastard vets ripping people off... ).

Whilst I was waiting to see the vet, a lady was there with her dog who was very sick - she'd had an emergency spay last week, spent £500 at her own vet and the dog had an infection and was bleeding internally. She was quoted £205 for treatment, the vets were also planning on keeping the dog overnight. The vet wanted a £200 deposit for treatment. BUT, because the lady only had £100 until tuesday when she got paid (and she was distraught by this time, because it was literally life or death), the vet was refusing to treat the dog apart from making it comfortable. The lady asked if she could pay the remainder this morning when she collected the dog, the vet was adamant that she had to leave a £200 deposit. He offered the PTS option (but it still would have cost £160!)

AIBU to think that the vet was being money grabbing and only had finances in the forefront of his mind? I was particularly livid because the vet insisted on discussing this in the waiting room in front of me and 2 other people, instead of giving the lady the curtosey of discussing her financial afairs and dog treatment in private. I appreciate that the vets concern was that the owner wouldn't collect the dog or pay for the cost of treatment, but surely their job is to relieve suffering and give emergency treatment? If you didn't care about your pet, you wouldn't be taking it to an emergceny vet at 9pm on a Sunday night, surely?

QT

Shit - different topic altogether but just wanted to share this - post has just arrived and my vet practice has sent me a card in memory of my cat that was PTS last week. Made me cry all over again, but how lovely of them!

Sory about your cat coatgate - I have lost 2 this year and finding it very hard.

EW - the woman in question at no point said "I am not paying your bill". The vet asked for a £200 deposit (at 9pm at night) and the owner asked (begged actually) to be allowed to pay £100 deposit because that was all she had and pay the rest in the morning when she could get hold of it.

The dog was being hospitalised at the vets, and part of the bill was a £70 "walk in the door" fee - so quite literally money for nothing and no, I don't buy that it's overheads etc just because it's out of hours, because you are still charged a consultation and treatment fee. It's money grabbing when an owner is over a barrel in an emotionally charged situation.

I think £100 would have covered the actual costs too and I also think it's a big enough wedge of the total to be a reasonable offer.

The vet doesn't sound like he's had many charm lessons but it may not be his practice and he may not have the authority to take a judgement in this sort of situation.

I also doubt that he'd be doing much more than putting the dog on a drip at that time on a Sunday night

But you didn't offer to lend her the money ? but your quite happy for the vet to have to take the chance?

People get paid more out of hours - you may not get the overheads but the vet still has to pay and be paid - he was rude but not unfair - you train for 7 years the pay is going to be quite high especially at 9 o'clock on a Saturday night

I feel for the pet and I feel for the owner for not having the money - but its not the vets fault

£70 doesn't sound unreasonable for an out of hours 'call out' fee, seems standard to me

There will be other costs also - paying the nurse and the receptionist for example.

The trouble is that this is an out of hours emergency vet and not the usual practice. In most cases the emergency vet will treat the emergency and the patient will go back to the normal vet for follow up treatment/surgery etc. They do expect to be paid in full but I do think that they should have some provision for partial payment

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this EW.

Whether or not I was prepared to lend her the money is actually irrelevant to my OP.

I've dealt with most of the vets in my area on and off for years (because of rescue) and the majority, if not all of them, would take a smaller deposit and be a little bit more flexible than this one, especially given that one of the charges was £70 "out of hours". The dog was staying in the vets. Actual cost of treatment (a drip and pain relief) would have been somewhere in the region of £60 max. The other stuff was profit/mark-up. The vet could have taken the risk, IMNSHO.

EW, you're reaching. She was obviously not going to walk out without paying the bill, and was offering a very reasonable amount as a deposit. I find it difficult to believe someone who professes to love animals can possibly be as blinkered as you. What you are in effect saying is that the vet's random decision to make that 'deposit' that amount is more important than the care of the dog. No, sorry, it isn't.

And again, none of this has any effect on the insurance, as it is about up front money which would've been a problem for the lady, whether or not she had insurance.

Heating the animal care centre 24/7 can be very expensive - we have heated sheds at the charity and its our greatest expense this time of the year

It's not just profit and mark up QuietTiger there is an element in the charges related to staff time. They will not make enough just on drug markups to pay for salaries and building costs.

But as I said earlier as long as the actual costs are covered then there would have been plenty of room to be reasonable about waiting until the next day

Ew It doesn't cost any more to heat a building on a Sunday than it does on a Monday. The £70 walk in fee is purely for the unsocial hours and I think that anyone who truly cares about animals would have taken the risk (very small) that they might not get it under the circumstances. After all, he was there anyway and if the lady walked out with the dog and without paying he wasn't going to get it either!

Please, please tell me why the vet should take the risk - I am blinkered as I run a small business and know how easy it is to go bust over relatively small amounts.

She was going to walk out without paying the full bill - this is an emergency vet who does not know her

I'm not talking about insurance but why should the vet not be paid ???? If they do not make enough money to make it worth working on a Saturday night then there will be no emergency vet. Ok so it might have covered his costs but as an emergency vet can you imagine how many people promise to pay but dont??? Somone said earlier - you come in crying over your dog and the dog dies so you refuse to pay.

Economic reality - you may not like it but it will still bite you on the arse

"The vet could have taken the risk, IMNSHO."

Perhaps he has done so in the past and been out of pocket and so has learned not to do so again? And TBH, who are you to decide what financial risk he can afford to take?

I'm not going through it again, I really have explained by POV already and that's it. Other people seem to be understanding it, so there we go.

I still would like some clarification on how non insured people are somehow less responsible than those with insurance. You were talking about that, which is why I began directing posts at you. Insurance is a crap shoot and it is very often far more responsible to save money towards potential future treatments, rather than pay into something that just won't pay out.

To be clear as to what I am stating, I very much disagree with you on your apparently blanket POV that uninsured owners are irresponsible. We will not agree on the other points, but I would simply like to know how you come to that conclusion.

EW in this case because the animal was clearly in pain and the lady was obviously distraught and had no means on a Sunday night to produce the money there and then. If the animal had not been in pain, had it been a Monday morning and the banks been open I would understand it. It was a small risk that he might not make a profit on this one not that he would be out of pocket. The lady would have had to come back to collect her dog and the vet would have been totally reasonable not to let her have the dog back until she had stumped up. Suppose someone had left a dog on the doorstep clearly in pain? Would his attitude have been, no owner, no payment, ignore?

I would have thought the difference between the OP lending the lady the money and the vet accepting a smaller deposit was obvious? OP has stated many times that the dog would have been left there and the fee would have been paid when the lady collected the dog. So the vet would get the fee then, which is perfectly standard procedure at my vet. Whereas is the OP had lent her the money then she would have had no comeback (along the lines of 'you can have your dog back when you pay').

Good grief, I took my cat in two weeks ago and we decided there that there was nothing further that could be done and so he had to be pts. After they had done it they told me I could just leave, don't worry about stopping to pay on your way out, sort it out when you feel able. That's what caring vets do. I do feel sad that some people have such terrible vets local to them, such a shame.

"She was going to walk out without paying the full bill - this is an emergency vet who does not know her "

The vet was keeping the dog in overnight, why would the owner pay £100 deposit if they didn't intend to collect it? It is not unreasonable that late at night someone wouldn't have access to any further cash even if they had the funds available to pay.

Most vets require payment when you collect you pet after treatment, not when you drop it off. My own vet is no more likely to kno wwhere I live than an emergency vet, they ask my address, I tell them, they don't ask for ID, but take my word for it. When my cat was spayed I dropped her off, cllected her later and paid then. This vet wanted the money up front. I don't think the woman was unreasonable in asking to pay the balance when she collected her dog.

Whereyouleftit - OK, so you have a point that it's not my position to decide what financial risk a vet can take.

HOWEVER, yet again, I'll point out that the lady wasn't refusing to pay, she was asking for time to pay the remaining amount (which would have been paid on the Monday am)and she was offering £100 as a deposit, which would have covered actual cost of treatment had she buggered off. The vet also had the dog as ransom because it was hospitalised.

Yellow snow I never said all uninsured pet owners were irresponsible. As I have said I understand it can be hard to get and can be hard to get them to pay out. you are putting your own twist to my words which is fine as you seam prepared to spend other peoples money as well.

I have said people should be prepared for the expenses that having a vet incur and that expecting the Vet to treat without payment is unrealistic.

And Midori - so what to be honest - your vet does what your vet does - he is self employed. As is the emergency vet - I can imagine an emergency vet is the type to be ''ripped'' off and is probably fed up of sob stories and unpaid bills

and OT she may well have paid £100 and decided to never collect the dog.

I'm not twisting your words at all:

*EWeatherwax Mon 29-Nov-10 10:45:43
sherby - why does she not have insurance ?

I don't want to sound heartless as animals are my passion - but do think people who have pets without insurance are as irresponsible as people who drive cars without it. (yes I know hard to get in some cases but that's not the vets problem!)

Pets are not a right they are a privilege*

Hope that clarifies things.

I really don't know how I'm spending other people's money, and since you don't know a thing about me, perhaps you would like to clarify how you know this?