to think that people should have helped

[FrankBongers]

Was in M&S earlier today and a mum and her little girl were going down the escalator. The little girl freaked out and climbed back to the top but her mum was already going down it.

The little girl (prob about 4 or 5) was sat at the top in hysterics with her feet right on the moving bit. The poor mother was trying to run up the escalator but was getting nowhere - it was like something from a nightmare.

The mum eventually realised that she was not going to be able to reach her daughter, and shouted 'stay there, I'll come back for you', she then ran down the escalator, to go to the 'up' escalator, which is completely out of sight of the other one.

This whole time, people were just stood staring, and loads of people were literally stepping over the little girls head to go down the escalator. It took a good 40 seconds, and probably about 15 people stepping over, before a woman took hold of this child.

Every one knew what was happening, must have been at least 100 people watching.

Poor mum must have been frantic, and to see these people stepping over her DD must have been terrible.

I was totally on the wrong side of the shop, but was heading over to grab the girl but this other woman got there first.

Bloody ridiculous. Am also cross with myself that I didn't shout across the shop 'Will someone pick up that child before she falls down the escalator'.

If you are that poor mum, have a giant non mumsnet hug from me and a massive glass of wine.
at fuckwit people stepping over.

similar thing happend when I was very pregnant with dc2. dc1 didnt make a big enough step to get on and was stranded on top of the escalator. I shouted for dc1 to wait for me but a nice gentleman came and took dc down with him. I always try to help if someone needs obvious help or is upset. sometimes just asking 'youre ok' is enough.

I would much rather pick a child up or help them to a customer service desk and get yelled at by a parent than leave them. At least I would know that the child was safe and that they had not headed for the door or something in those extra 30 seconds it takes for the parent to find them. It is such a shame that people are scared to help.

A while ago I was walking through town with dd in the buggy and ds trotting along beside me. He stopped to watch some roadworks and I didn't notice right away, when I turned around in a panic he was merrily following me holding hands with a random bloke who had realised he was mine and was trying to catch us up. I thought it was lovely of him.

giddypickle - that when I start holding the child coat or similar shouting "we are looking for mummy" " we are lost and I am not with this child"

so that people know I am not with the child and the mum knows I am just trying to help - hopefully.

if I have one of my dd's with me I ask them to comfort the chidl.
I have done this probably on three occassions and no harm has been doen, though I have never been thanked by a parent for helping so I guess they just want to get away and feel I may say soemthing - which I wouldn't

I seem to be a lone voice sometimes on these threads. Not helping in a group situation is normal, human behaviour. It's been studied for years and years. And actually the more shocking the situation, the less likely it is that people intervene. Of course outside of the situation everybody says that they would help, that they can't understand people who don't. Well in a packed place with at least a 100 people watching, that tells you something. Unless you live in Fuckwit Central, it's unlikely that everybody there was a 'twat'. It's the way humans behave when confronted with the unexpected in a group situation. In all replicated situations, it's been proven v rare for anybody to react. Certainly it's more common in those that are trained to react (armed and uniformed services for example) but they've had the natural reaction overriden by training.

And it's not just others in danger. Terrible events when people have been massacred by lone gunmen/knife wielders are more devastating because people freeze. They don't run or shout or defend themselves. It's the unexpected. You just don't process it.

Interestingly op, if you had shouted you might have changed the situation because commands and words we do understand and it breaks the effect somewhat. If you ever find yourself in need of help, look directly at somebody so they know that it's them you mean and say 'please help by doing xyz'.

It's a mix of being frightened of making a situation worse, not knowing quite what to do anyway, assuming somebody else is better qualified to help and sheer dumb human psychology.

Don't write the world off as twats. They're just human. We all are.

I'm glad the girl is okay.

We had similar when my then 4yo niece ran on ahead and got into the lift before we could stop the doors closing. Was a car park lift, no stairs and it stopped at 4 floors going down and the same 4 coming back up. When it arrived back hysterical niece was being comforted by a woman who had only got in the floor below, was actually waiting to go down not up but had seen the state of my niece and got in to help her. Seven other floors and not one bugger helped her

fucking idiots just standing there! the poor little girl, she must have been so frightened :( and her poor mum.

my god i would have been fuming.

I have never understood these people. I have been the mum struggling on escalators in London tubes. If someone helps you they are, as often as not, Glaswegian or Australian or something. Not locals anyway.
We have also been in the situation of other PARENTS collecting their children from dance classes letting our 5 year old DS out into the car park rather than telling him to go inside and wait to be picked up.
I used to be a teacher and do understand that people don't want to touch children but there is a limit. If they are in danger you have to. I would rather be accused of something unsavoury than feel responsible for a child being hurt when I could have helped!
It is not rocket science!

Showadday you're right, i;ve read the research too.

But I as[ire to better and frankly if I can;t manage it myself then it'll never happen. I;d rather help and be abnormal, tbh.

'I would rather be accused of something unsavoury than feel responsible for a child being hurt when I could have helped!
It is not rocket science!

'

Yes.

I used to groundcrew with a carnival float and have had the choice between letting a ten eyar old run under 12 ton of generator or physically grabbing them and dragging them back into the crowd; I have also been known to elbow the odd drunk adult running under the wheels so they were propelled back into the crowd.

Dh still does it, regularly.

I am the least physically aggressive person you might meet but in that situation it's a no brainer. This season from my position as dancer I have seen our Chair (over 65 year old man) pushed against a lamp post, a 70 year old crew member (female) slammed into the cart and someone step out of the crowd and attempt to throw steaming coffee at my 9 year old (I should emphasise that during a season we are watched by 250 thousand people or thereabouts, more if anything so teh stat chances of that are very low).

On all these occasions somebody intervened physically, as mildly as possible but effectively. it's what theya re trained to do. Luckily with ds2 the woman was carried off by 2 crew members with another 2 there for good emasure, but a few eyars crewing makes you see what can happen as well as the very many times nothing bad at all happens, and that intervention can be essential.

I've been sworn at before for stopping a toddler hurtling head on into the road at the local leisure centre (for some reason every single child has to launch themselves full-pelt out of the door and test their 0-60 acceleration when leaving the building). OK so you'd rather that BMW hits your child than someone with a fucking clean CRB they keep on their person touches them and saves their arse - fine by me - your kid - your mess on the tarmac.

Also was leaving a school I'd been supplying at one day and one of the kids who I'd been teaching spotted me walking out of the gate and had been separated from her parents in the afterschool crowd - so I walked her back into the school office and went back out to look for mum... got a gobful for that one as well for the shocking inconvenience of her having to walk 50 yards back down the school drive to where her 6 year old was waiting in the safe warmth of the school foyer.

Any wonder I'll avoid intervening nowadays unless absolutely necessary? Last time I saw an AWOL kid in the supermarket - I didn't go up to them - I kept a loose eye on them and directed their parents to the way they were heading... less chance of a bunch of verbal abuse that way.

I agree with LoudRowdyDuck in that you need to be in the right parental mindset. We had DD2 16 years after her nearest sibling. Having teenagers you don't really notice little children, or consider hazards, in the same way parents of little children do.

Not only that I've noticed that if I take an interest in a small child in a shop (for example) when I don't have DD with me I'm looked at with suspicion by the parents. When DD (3) is in tow they visibly relax.

I did grab a child off a climbing frame in the summer because he was stuck and getting distressed, and I couldn't see anyone who was obviously with him. Mother was suitably grateful as it turned out (though she looked "hard" so perhaps I wouldn't have touched him if I'd known who he was with )

On holiday once I noticed a toddler leaving a soft play room and ended up following her, gathering her up and taking her back into the room , and nobody noticed , either that she was missing or that I'd got her.

Did the woman ask anyone to help?

Just wondering as the very same thing happened to me last week. I had dd2 in the pushchair. I put the brakes on and pushed it on to the escalator and told dd1 (4) to jump on but she hesitated a second and we started to move away. I could see her panicking and about to cry. As a woman approached the escalator I said loudly 'it's ok because this nice woman is going to help you get on' and the nice woman did indeed take her by the hand and bring her on to the escalator and down to where i was.

She chatted away so kindly to dd saying her little boy sometimes gets nervous too.

Sometimes people would like to help but are hesitant in case the help is not welcom. It never hurts to ask

Sancti, it's knowing that it's normal to feel this way and choosing to behave differently that sometimes helps. Of course everybody would rather help than not but I like to point out that when these thing happen, people are not fuckwits or twats or lazy or indifferent or any of the other accusations that are levelled at them. They're normal. And we can only try to do more. But there's no point dismissing the majority of the population with contempt for being paralysed by their psychological limitations. When everybody is behaving that way, I think it's nice to remember that there's probably a reason for it and it's not some mark of a declining society/morals. And if you're aware of it then if it happens that you're the one that needs help, you can know to target a single person and ask.

Showaddywaddy I think you are right actually.

I am the OP, (was trying out a new name but don't like it!!). Part of the reason I posted was because I was so angry with myself for not shouting out a clear command, so actually I was as little help as the people close to her.

Everybody was frozen staring, and no doubt if the mother had shouted 'can someone bring her down' that would have happened.

It was probably easier for me to see what was going on as well as I was further away at the time.

I found the whole thing really weird and upsetting and am trying to drum it into my head to take action immediately next time something similar happens.

Dexterrocks - I do wonder if this is a particularly English problem, because we are rather prone to feeling embarrassed in social situations.

Fanjo, speech definitely helps. It breaks the 'spell'. People can respond to orders in a way they can't respond to an unknown and unexpected situation.

And it does shock you when you see it because it's frightening that we're just at the mercy of our own limitations sometimes.

How simple should it be to guide a little child down an escalator and/or offer them comfort? How is it that the obvious is so beyond us sometimes? Funny creatures humans.

I think I would have grabbed her away from the top of the escalator by sheer reflex, as I have always had a bit of a horror of the things since the "Public Safety Awareness" ads of the 1970s (Rag doll chewed up in the teeth of the thing - argh).

BUt lots of people won't touch other people's DC for whatever reason. Last time I flew with DS (2), he ran ahead of me down the gangway to the plane and got on it, while the airline staff did nothing to stop/catch him. By the time I had got there (and of course they just had to look at my boarding pass, didn't they), he had disappeared! At that stage, tehy still have lots of cupboard/section doors open, so he could have gone anywhere - I couldn't see him at all for a couple of mins but then a stewardess spotted him - he'd chosen his own seat by a window and sat down in it. Phew.
At Singapore, he did exactly the same thing - except that this time a nice man in business class caught him and held onto him until I could get there - thank goodness! I had no spare hand to hold him - carrying the buggy (which they make you fold before you get on the gangway) and both sets of cabin luggage left him free to run.

I have had a really nasty example of the 'bystander apathy' thing in the past, so I go out of my way to not let it affect me like that.

Sometimes though, it's not even about that. Sometimes people are just stupid, for want of a better word. My 19 month old ran for the door in a coffee shop the other day & I couldn't quite get to him before a man, already leaving, held the door open for him?!

I've even seen people behaving like this at toddler groups! I was at one on Thursday when a little boy fell over and banged his head on the leg of a chair. His mom hadn't seen and he was obviously hurt and about to cry. Everybody just looked at him! I am actually very awkward around other peoples children, but I picked him up and asked if he was ok.

People often give me funny looks if I try to help a child when I'm not with my son. I look very young so people seem to assume that I'm not a mother and am 'interested' in their child!

I do feel for my partner at times though. He doesn't understand the idea that men can't talk to or touch children. He ran over to pick up a baby who'd fallen onto concrete at the local park. Instead of thanking him, his mom just whisked him away as quickly as possible. It was shocking, especially given that he was with my son, they'd been chatting just minutes earlier and he was obviously bringing him over to her! He was talking to a little toddler the other day and her dad seemed quite amused by it. He said 'you're not from england originally, are you?'. Partner didn't understand why he'd said that and I explained that it's because it's very non-english for a man to talk to a child. I do feel quite sorry for him because he's an absolutely lovely person and is quite shocked when people react to him in that way.

Show(addywaddy) - that's interesting what you say - didn't know about that.
I was in Covent Garden once, going up from the underground shopping area to the next level up - there was a woman helping a disabled man up the stairs, whilst also trying to carry the shopping and his 3-wheeled walker - so as I went past I said "let me take that up for you" and took the walker so she had a spare hand. No one else noticed that she was struggling.

I do wonder if half of it is that we just go around in our own little bubbles, not even noticing what is going on with other people around us. I am an inveterate people-watcher, and of an interfering nature (thanks Dad!) so can't help but offer help if I see people need it. And perhaps that's the important rider: if I see people need it. Probably half those people stepping over that little girl didn't even register that it was a little girl until they were past her and on the escalator!

I wanted to volunteer at a local primary school and hear kids reading. I got my CRB, got my training, and was told that - even if a child was sobbing its eyes out and clinging to me - I wasn't allowed to cuddle them.

I always stop and wait if I can't see who a child is with, and I always look out for children near roads. I'm not a mum, but my Mum always does this when we're out together in town, so I think I've got into the habit of it. I can't imagine being unconcerned about it.

This reminds me of my dd who at the age of 2 escaped out of a friends house (out of her unlocked front door) when my dp wasn't watching and didn't actually notice she had gone.My friend lived on a busy village roundabout at the time.

Luckily a man had seen her come out the house and wander up the street, waited to see if anyone came out after her and when they didn't took her hand and brought her back.

I shudder to think what could have happened though and dp ha a right bollocking when I got in from work....

starsareshining - I do think it is so sad that men are seen as some sort of enemy of children. It will be really detrimental to our children. One of my happiest childhood memories is of talking to an old man who lived on our street, he had a dog that he let me fuss over. He didn't know me or my parents, so wasn't a 'trusted' person as such. Just a really nice old guy who was kind to a little kid.

I bet these days that would be much less likely to happen.

HelenaRose - what a sad and ridiculous world we are living in.

I'm afraid I'm wary of helping. As I've had some bad experiences.

Example 1
I v. politely asked two children climbing on the shelving system in the local supermarket (they were above my head height and I'm 5'7") if their Mother would be happy to see them up there. They shuffled down rather sheepishly.

MOther walked round the corner and had a go at me for telling her kids off.

Example 2
Went to visit my parents and found a small child (prob. 3) wandering around the street (it is a quiet residential street but the houses are arranged such that the main living areas - kitchens/ living rooms - are to the back. Back gardens are enclosed, Front are not.

I knew whose child he was (it is a small street and my parents have lived there for a long time) so took him to the door and rang the bell. His Mum answered, Grabbed him and slammed the door in my face!

Ergo I'm not sure what I would do in acute situation any longer.