to think Gove's ideas on education are hilarious?

[NonnoMum]

So, putting all the kids in blazers and ties is a brilliant idea (why stop there, Mike, how about boaters too?) And training up ex-squaddies to be teachers - that'll instill discipline, won't it now? Who wants James Blunt as their RS teacher (just remember kids, "you're bootiful")
What a load of tosh...
Who voted for these muppets?

Oh, yeah, and they're scrapping school sports too - woopie!

Not just cramming. You can also do fine in final exams with selective studying and a little luck.

On my Law course, one of my friends who, in our final year had been (overly) heavily involved in student and other politics asked me to identify six areas in each subject and provide the notes I had prepared relating to those areas. This was pretty much the only studying he did in that year.

Despite the fact that I was confident that those areas would be covered in the exams (after all there are major issues in any course which need to be tested) I was too chicken to limit my studying in that way with the consequence that, as my selection had proved spot on, my friend got better results than I did. He is now a silk.

I must be one of those dull people who has taken the slow but steady approach - it has worked though.

It is quite obvious why military personnel would do well in our schools. With escalating social tensions and the breakdown of society who wouldn't want a trained killer in the staff room.

Furthermore if the young people don't knuckle down and achieve some academic qualifications they could always follow their role models into whatever foreign adventure the government has signed us up for. Cannon fodder without the need to spend on expensive advertising, brilliant!

Will they be allowed to bring their guns?

Honestly, the part about the GCSEs turning into one exam at the end of two years has me seriously furious. It is an utter disgrace of a system for several reasons.

One: Not every child can cram. I was lucky, I did bugger all revision for my GCSEs bar flicking through a revision guide or two on the day of the exam. My sister "scraped" through certain sujects because she needs a more practical educational system. My brother has learning difficulties and panics when faced with a time limit. He knows it all, but he cannot communicate it when he has a countdown ticking away. Coursework is his saving grace, as it allows him to demonstrate his knowledge in a way which is relevant to him.

Two: What about students who fall ill, or have something go wrong during these all important exams? My cousin lost his mother to a heart attack aged fifteen, and obviously did not to particularly well in his exams. How does a one-size-fits-no one test allow for things like that?

I went to a Grammar school, and even in that high-pressure academically focused environment there were girls who could not cope with exams despite being straight-A students.

Not to mention the sidelining of important subjects just because they are deemed non-academic. Because obviously, no one needs art or music any more. After all, we can just listen to God Save the Queen again and some good old hymns while we gaze in repeated adoration at the work of Turner and Constable, while thousands of foreign workers come to take over the manual labour now that we've deemed vocational schemes unimportant and can't actually find any UK citisens with those skills. Of course, being immigrants they shall only be allwoed day passes and will work for the thrill of seeing our academic brains in action - one nation, united in algebra, reminiscing about the days when England Ruled the waves...

Or you know, maybe we could wake the fuck up and pay attention to how children actually learn and stop clipping their wings before they have a chance to fly. We need carpenters and plumbers and builders and musicians and artists and if we cut them out of our educational system we really will have a lost generation on our hands.

I can foresee a lot of people electing to Home Educate in future. I have friends who have already said they won't put their children anywhere near a school while the tories are in charge.

I voted for them and am not a muppet.
Re uniform: if you insist on the kids being smart and are really hardline about it where reasonable, then you do see improvements in discipline. Be tough on the smaller things and the bigger things don't occur. That's a fact of teaching (after 12 years at the chalkface I feel qualified to say this!)
Re school sports, my dd came home with a petition last night about NOT stopping the funding and my DH and I didn't sign it:
a) because the government are diverting the funds from these projects back into schools for headteachers to manage. 3.7 billion pounds going BACK into the school budget. I would rather my kids HT decided for herself whether or not it was a priority to buy in extra PE specialists OR spend the money on other areas, like literacy or numeracy development;
b) because these iniatives have made very little difference to the numbers of kids taking part in competitive sport;
c) because we can't afford it as a country any more and I'd rather they cut this than essential services and departments in education. Why have specialist PE teachers if you have to buy in extra special people to coach the kids also?
d) because I voted for the Tories because I wanted to see my country's deficit under control and didn't want the IMF to be called in. If I oppose everything they do, then what's the point?
Behind Cameron all the way. Labour got us into this mess - why on earth would anyone listen to their spin now?

Sorry about typos - late!

Sorry - not addressed all Gove's ideas here. Will try to address the rest when less tired. Not so enthusiastic about some tbh, tho in the main support the government.

Scorpette - are you for real? Uniforms highlighting the difference between rich and poor more than regular clothes??? Seriously???

Actually Evil Twin, stroppy teenage lads respond rather well to even stroppier army type guys. They weirdly respect all that macho crap and toe the line. Don't get it myself, but have seen it. Makes them somehow feel like soldiers themselves, which a lot of teenage lads identify with virility. Don't ask me why - just commenting on what have seen.

Re: testing 6 year old in reading! Yes please!!!! I've been keen to know my 6 YO's reading age for the last year, but the staff at school are secretive and won't tell me for some odd reason. Tested her myself and she's around 8 YO, but want to hear it from them. My DD wouldn't give a crap if she had a reading test - she wouldn't even notice tbh.

[Cheers on Thruaglassdarkly]

Agree with everything you've said!

I'm just glad to have left the UK really. My children are in Canadian schools now, where there are no uniforms (talking to the children here they find it a very odd idea) just a few simple rules, and where all the schools in our town are considered good. People moan about things, but there is none of the panic and worry about which school your child goes to. Results seem pretty good too, although it is a totally different system, very modular with lots of continuous assessment. In the last couple of years of school there are lots of links to both the local university and the local trade schools, so children who want to be stretched can start higher education courses, and those that are more practically orientated can start on apprenticeships.

Wearing comfortable clothes has no impact on learning if children can wear what they like to study at university then why should it be a handicap at school? My memories about uniform were that it was badly made and badly fitting and that it created a stick to beat us with that was totally unnecessarily, and simply caused friction between teachers and children, because we all knew it was a totally stupid thing to argue about.

It's always jam tomorrow

What happened to the lovely young high-achievers from the city we were promised?
They were going to come flooding in and wow our teaching, energising and revitalising whilst being stylish eyecandy for the likes of me.
Now we are promised authoritarian, battle-hardened and educated soldiers, teaching our children how to be team players and instilling discipline.
Possibly within 6 weeks?
It's my birthday in March, can I pre-order?

Gove's always been dreadful for spouting whatever idea came to him in the shower that morning out to any nearby journalist.

Baronness Billingham on Sky News last night expressed it a lot better than I could...

Scrapping the school sports initiative - apparently this had bee approved by a cross-party decision - so doesn't make sense scrapping that.

Insisting on a MFL for every teenager - er, isn't that what puts off a lot of teenage girls and boys from loving school...

She mentioned that it seems like the tories want to create a school system based on their own experiences of school, so off to Latin everyone, and forget about the progress made in the curriculum in the last twenty years.

I'm actually in favour of uniform. But it doesn't have to be blazers and ties. How many 15 year old girls look good in a tie, and how does that reflect anything remotely appropriate in the real world? How may 20 something business women crack out their ties when off to impress Alan Sugar in the board room? Or how many 5 year olds need the formality of a shirt and tie?

This man is one of the reasons five of my good friends and colleagues are leaving the country. I can't blame them.

I haven't read all of the thread so please be gentle with me.
My daughter goes to a upper secondary state school that has a uniform of blazer and tie which is enforced all the time. The school is one of the top performing in the county.
All of the other top performing state schools in the county also have strict uniform policies involving blazers and ties.
I don't know, maybe this is just a coincidence.

I cannot believe this idiot man is in charge of Education.

This is going back a bit, but does anyone remember Michael Gove on that late-night show with David Baddiel and that Tracey woman who does the arts stuff on BBC2? He did a classic interview with Rhodes Boyson where he was arguing - I hope as devil's advocate - that skivers were "educating" themselves outside the school structure...

Here we go - it was called A Stab In The Dark

'Honestly, the part about the GCSEs turning into one exam at the end of two years has me seriously furious. It is an utter disgrace of a system for several reasons.' The GCSEs are an utter disgrace of a system imo, and as an examiner I have been appalled by the decline in standards and the dumbing down of the exam in my subject area.

There was an alternative to O levels and they were called CSEs. The employers knew the difference. If all the league tables for schools and employers requirements and 6th form entry is based on A*-C grades, then what has actually changed? They are all still looking for O level passes. In my subject area we did not have modular exams, or coursework, but do it on straight exams. We had a higher pass rate in my department than others that did modules and coursework - go figure.

I am also thrilled that he is reintroducing MFLs. I live overseas, and most of the kids speak two or three languages here; the Brits don't. To be mobile and have the ability to work abroad, languages are a pre-requisite.

Ds is doing IGCSEs that are not modular, and very few have coursework. This suits him as it allows him to develop and assimilate and fit in information in the larger scheme of things, rather than learning in bite sized chunks than are then forgotten. I am soo glad that Gove is looking at changing this at A level as well. I am praying that it happens by Sept 2012 when ds starts his A levels.

"... forget about the progress made in the curriculum in the last twenty years..."
WHAT progress, pray tell???

[bangs head against wall]

I think the winning combination of dictating the curriculum whilst simultaneously allowing heads to decide their own curriculum cannot possibly fail. No siree.

My father was in the military and doesn't have a clue how to relate to kids...