To think that if you're a student protester

[RedSuedeShoes]

You've defeated your argument when you can't even spell properly on your own placard?!

They are the types that wouldn't have got into uni in the first place before exam results were dummed down and we wouldn't have to be raising fees!

The words misspelt included:

Thought, Privilege, Student , and University!!!

And it wasn't text speak or play on words.

I have just seen a girl being interviewed during the protest. She repeatedly said "nine grand, nine grand a year to go to uni, after three years that's TWENTY ONE GRAND of debt"

I guess she won't be doing a maths degree.

I don't know that my sons will staudy at uni anyway (OK, it's highly unlikely they will, Dh and I both have done but they have SN) but I regularly attack the spelling from their teachers in school letters with a red pen, although I then bin immediately rather than complain. Coz I is a wuss. They attend a very popular Church school.

So frankly before we attack kids (who could have dyslexia, which is not linked to a low IQ) then we might look at the people teaching them first?

Quite right university should only be for the well off who can be hot housed in private schools, keep the hoi poloi out at all costs.

does it really take hot housing to teach an adult 3 x 9?

No it does not but to extrapolate from some poor spelling that the university population should be reduced to 10% of school leavers smacks of elitism.

Of course not Nancy

But it takes a charitable person to think that a teen on camera might be a little nervous, perhaps?
I've done a lot of direct to camera / mike work (no, not famous, was a fundraiser) and it's not for everyone.

New- quite. Thank goodness my boys are best suited through vocational roues, it's all theya re likely to get access to anyway (except perjhaps ds3 who has immense PC ability yet can barely talk; wonder how he'd fit in? After all, very limited routes don't offer so much flexibility for the atypical).

Oh and a disclaimer about predicting ds4's outcomes, too little.

I'm doing a second degree and tbh, the grade descriptors resemble GCSE English Lit descriptors from 10 years ago. A first correlates to around an A or B GCSE grade from the wording. (It's an English degree, btw!). Hummm...surely not?

I think that uni shouldn't be the knee jerk reaction to finishing school. Some kids should do vocational, some should do uni and some should head straight to the work force. We all have different skills and higher education should reflect that.

There are a lot of crap degrees out there and I do question the value of the state supporting these. Having said that I also see the value of education for the sake of education but I don't support taxes going to fund a 3 year jolly.

The real question is would you rather your taxes went to pay someone to do media studies or someone to do medicine?

I don't have any answers but I do think that the protesters shot themselves in the foot by being violent.

I'm a little confused. Dh is a mature student and at Leeds University. When word first came out about the possibility of tuition going up, I said to dh, we can't afford it and you will have to leave. He went to speak to the director of his course who spoke to the head of the dept or the uni or some such. The official word that came back to Dh was that as a current student, he has a contract with the uni and they can't put up his fees for the term of this degree. So if that's correct (no reason to believe it isn't), then shouldn't it be the A-Level students, or their parents, who should be protesting, and not the current students who won't be affected. I suspect that none of them have actually asked anyone and aren't aware that they will not be affected.

I rather agree with the poster who says that the genuinely bright are being penalised by having to subsidise those who are less intelligent.

As a relatively recent grad who is now doing an MA, I can assure people that the genuinely bright do still manage to shine- it's obvious in any group who is most able and who is either coasting or pushing their limits.

Tutors in turn recognise that by allowing extra independent modules to be studied in specialisms to maximise opportunities (mine is Buddhism so that if I can ever afford a 'luxury' course I can do the Buddhism MA at Bristol). It also reflects in dissertation matter studied, something employers increasingly take an interest in.

There are an awful lot of jobs where the lack of a degree stops you in your tracks but that aren't that difficult- as a fundraiser I hit a glass ceiling for my qualifications at 28 whren I had been running my area on cover for six months but wasn't eligible to apply for the permanent role as there was a graduates only policy. My manager apologised but wasnl;t allowed to overturn the ruling.

Reality is now that post grad study is the level of attainment equivalent to an old degree in terms of market rates, and the only problem I have with that is the extra cost of that extension. I'm certainly not for the 'top 10%' as I think that does lead to social exclusion, but dropping from 50% to maybe 35% might open up a bit of post grad funding for the brightest (long term, I recognise current financial situation).

Sofia- of course they know that; DH is also a mature student. It's about the notion of looking after others surely? A valuable ideal.

Slightly off topic, but I did have a chuckle last night when one young girl was interviewed on tv and said: "£9,000 a year, for 3 years, that's 21 grand that most people can't afford." I hope she isn't studying maths ...

SofiaAmes, the current students are protesting because they care about education. And that is the same reason that many of their lecturers are joining the march: they actually do care about where education is going. There is no evidence that raised tuition fees will stop the averagely-bright-but-loaded from going to university: the kind of student who will be deterred is likely to be working class, it's got nothing to do with brains. We will still have as many dim and uninterested students, but we will miss out on the occasional very bright student from the council estate.

What we need is a whole bunch of soldiers to be fast tracked into the education system to sort them out, why has no one thougt of that - eh?!? I am pretty certain once we've put a few ex-squaddies into schools the standard of grammar and spelling will rocket, no?

Thereturnm taht quote was amde further down

And I reply as I did then: as someone who has worked front of mic / camera it's not natural for everyone, and anervous teen could be forgiven for cocking up under the circs IMO

(sorry, BF toddler with head on keyboard LOL)

Sorry, SMA - I admit to not having read the whole thread and I do agree that it can't be easy having a mic thrust in front of you - I'm sure I'd make a fool of myself. It was QUITE funny though, honestly, but I didn't mean to offend anyone.

Not offended LOL< just trying to be kind to poor, no doubt hugely embarassed teen.

Yes, all her mates will be laughing at her expense, poor sod!

can someone explain how this stops kids from poorer backgrounds anyway? it seems to be all paid for on student loans which are not paid back until you are on a fairly decent wage anyway, therefore making background irrelevant. and 27k for a bl0ody good earning potential if you pick the right course and work hard seems like a good deal to me.
btw, im not rich and have 3 teenagers working towards studying medicine! its going to be tough but WORTH it

ATM student loand cannot cover costs (residence at DH's uni more than finance package) ang an increasing number of ciyrses have a blanket ban on student employment

So it's already hard fot poorer students than many realise, however the prospect of that hardship combined with financial insecurity through many years of payments may be too mch. Medicine may be financially worth it, but is teaching? nursing?* social work? Third sector employment?....

As a family that has hd a fair deal of financial hardhip we have learned that youc an cope with anything as long as you have no debt- benefits won;t and don;t cover that. As sucj we live a debt free life and I think the boymight too.

*I know people on MN think teaching and nursing don't need a degree: I don't agree anyhow but even if I did have seen no moves to change the legal requirement for qualification.

Oha nd to back up another aspect- have a friend whose son due to apply to Oxbridge for 2012 entry; 5 A's at A level expected. He will get it.

After 2011 they have no predicted income- Mum sick, dadc arer ' due to be amde redundant; their assessed income will put them out of reach of grant aid as it;s doen precedding eyar's income, but they haven't a hope in covering the fees. His course is a no work one so they have had to say no.

Santas-Your friend's son predicted 5 A's at A level is exactly the sort of person that is being penalised. I couldn't care less if someone average doesn't go to Uni due to the fees. If they are average, they shouldn't be doing a degree anyway.

Santas - could the son not take a gap year and then apply in 1212 for 1213 entry, so using the 1212 parental income figures to qualify for the grant aid?