to wonder what's so heroic about being in the British army?

[poppylongstocking]

Both my brother in laws are in the army and spend 6 months at a time away from their wife & kids in a country we are under no direct threat from fighting a war which was started on dubious grounds. They are risking their lives, yes, but I don't see it as heroic, I see it as a bit stupid to be honest. I could understand the label 'hero' if we were under direct threat and having our homes bombed as in WW2, but it's very different nowadays, aibu?

Gosh I had a message deleted. I am amazed that pointing out the clear intellectual shortcomings of the OP was deemed so offensive!

"They seem so wrapped up in being heros over there that they forget how their job is affecting their wives & children"

That is one of the most ignorant comments I've read for a long time.

I would imagine your BILs are very very aware of how their job affects their families.

I don't know one single serviceman or woman that thought 'yeah, I'll join the Forces so I can be a hero!"

More like 'I'll join the Services so I can have steady employment, potentially good career prospects, a decent pension and learn a trade or acquire some qualifications'.

well said sidge.

YABU and YANBU.

I agree that choosing to put yourself in the position where heroic actions are more likely to be necessary is a bit stupid if you're not willing to take the risk. No one is forced to join the army, there are other (better) ways of doing good in the world and if people didn't sign up / soldiers expressed moral and ethical concerns about the war then we might not even be in a war at all. If you sign up, you know what you're signing up to, including being judged as immoral for willingly becoming a tool of war. People who sign up are doing a job for money and they ABU if they expect to be treated like heroes. The majority have done nothing heroic, or even anything positive for the general public, and in so willingly becoming a tool of war they have done something a significant section of society find immoral.

However YABU to be so tactless about it as there are many mners who have loved ones in the army. YA also BU to suggest that no one in the army is a hero. Although I agree that they are not all heroes, and that joining is not heroic, there are many situations where soldiers do fantastic and heroic things.

Suicide bombers are heroes in some eyes.

Teddy, I see what you're saying. I just find it hard to understand how you can judge like this. Many people in the army joined when they were very young and needy - I don't think it is fair to criticize them for not doing more! I am not sure I would know exactly how best to make the world a better place and earn a living at the same time - why should an 18-year-old?

Of course there will be people in the Afghanistan and Iraq who consider their soldiers to be heroes fending of the Western occupation of their country. To them - it is us who are the terrorists.
LRD - that is a good point - I think the army recruiting in schools is absolutely not on. They pitch themselves as a a steady career to the working class, non-academic kids and they then get sent away to, possibly, die at the behest of our government . It's barbaric really. There are no winners in war.

Sidge - the armed forces are not the only way of getting those things - work hard in almost any job and you will get most / all of those benefits. I don't think it's unreasonable of the OP to judge someone who thinks that their personal financial gain is worth risking their life, other people's lives and arguably their integrity for.

But TeddyBare, soldiers do not have a voice- they do as they're told, they cannot strike.... how do you think they feel when they have to go and replace the striking firemen who earn far more and have far more time off than them? And you say they have done nothing positive for the general public???? Who would've put out all the fires whilst the firemen had a little holiday???

Except the weapons industry.

I'd love to see the OP's reaction if a soldier started up a thread here titled "SAHM's don't know how easy they have it"

Before I get shouted at, I'm not saying I think that of SAHM's...!

LoudRowdyDuck - I totally agree with you about the age thing. That's why I think that the minimum age for the armed forces should be much higher - 21 or 25. No 16 / 17 / 18 year old can make a rational decision on this scale, and I find it heartbreaking that a disproportionate number of care leavers join the armed forces. I hope that it's not because they lack the support, skill or ambition to gain secure jobs in other fields, but it scares me that it might be. I don't think it's acceptable to have an armed forces which children who have been failed by the education and care systems are are funnelled in to because no one can see an alternative for them. People in the army should be there because of a rational decision, not because it was their only option.

YABseriouslyU

TeddyBare yes I'm well aware that there are other job opportunities available.

However for many young men leaving school with no/few GCSEs and limited opportunities locally then the Armed Forces can be an attractive possibility. They don't do it for the honour and glory, they do it to earn a living.

Weepootle - soldiers can leave the army or if they find their job truly immoral then they can break the rules and take the consequences. If they took the job thinking it would be a good idea and then found that being a fireman would have been better paid etc then that's an argument for looking at all of your options before signing in to something. I don't see how willingly doing something you're unhappy about makes someone a hero.

YABU. Most of the people I know in the forces (including DH) really do believe that they are doing something worthwhile- not necessarily just in Iraq/ Afghanistan, but in the many and varied jobs they do.

Yes, it would be lovely if noone needed to defend our country, but unfortunately that's not the way it works. Those of us whose other halves have to be away carrying out their duties usually understand the importance of what they do, all over the world, and are grateful that they do. To me, their contribution and selflessness makes the world a safer place to live in for me and my children, so I live with it. It's quite derisive to tell us that we are a "bit stupid". Are firemen/ policemen/ mountain rescue also a "bit stupid"?

LMHF - what about other countries where massive human rights abuses are taking place? Human rights abuse is not reason we are in the Middle East - nor is preventing terror on our soil.

We're not fighting a country, we are fighting terrorists. And just like with the IRA the key to peace is NOT invading the country and blowing stuff up and making life miserable for the ordinary people. It is about finding out why the terrorists feel this way and working towards a compromise.

Anyone who is prepared to kill another person on the direct orders of someone else is a mercenary. We jail murderers who have killed in the heat of passion, yet we let legalised murderers wander around everyday on army bases.

To say they are heroes or that they have no choice is simply not true - they are taking money for being prepared to kill another person on the say-so of a government. They don't have to take the job.

What exactly do you think the people they are attacking are going to do when faced with death? What exactly do they expect to happen to their consciences when they have to murder someone based on following orders?

It shames me that we haven't evolved from killing as an answer to our political problems.

Sidge - well surely that means we should be doing everything possible to improve schools to make sure no one else ever joins the armed forces because they were failed by the school system. Just because that's how it is now doesn't mean that it's good or even justifiable. I don't think anyone should ever sign up because it's the only way they can earn a living. If you're risking your life and other people's lives it should be because you believe in it, not because you're desperate. Although I an sympathise with people who make that choice in that situation, I think we need to make sure that no one is ever in that situation, rather than using it as a justification for calling them heroes. If that's how most people join the army then it still doesn't make them heroes, it means they fell through a regrettable hole in the system and had to make a difficult decision.

to be fair, the firemen were on strike they probably weren't getting paid. although i agree that they do get paid more.

this country needs a defence, an army.

now put aside this particular war - there are always wars.

Its nice to know that such a thing as the armed forces exist.

i haven't got the courage to join the forces, i never did. but i appreciate their existence

"queen and country" what centuary are we in?

YANBU, I also agree with what northerngirl41 says. I think a lot of posters on here have an emotional involvement because they have a loved one in the forces.

unfitmother, because you are not in the forces you will never ever understand. I serve my queen and country, as do thousands of others and how dare you mock that? By the way, we are in the 21st century. See, even us thickos with no education in the armed forces can spell sometimes.