to think most would not really want a secondary modern

[inkyfingers]

OK, tell me why the 'grammar school system' is good for the 85% who don't get a place? I love the pace and challenge etc the GS offers (as many MNers tell me), but how does the alternative serve the huge majority of pupils? (cos surely a 'system' has to benefit as many as possible??).

If it's a really good wheeze, then the GS supporters would surely be happy if their own DC don't get places?

You shouldn't have to move but you can't have it both ways can you ?
I've moved 200 miles to give my children a better start in life, it's what you do isn't it.

there is no space on a UCAS application or a CV to put 'i am helpful' or 'i am patient' to exlain why you didn't get that A* having spent your time helping another kid.

equally, if a child comes out of school unable to read or write it won't benefit them to have patiently asked for and accepted assitance from the class swot - who isnot, after all, a teacher.

It makes me laugh when people say 'save our grammar schools' they always assume that their DC will get a place and I have yet to see a campaign to save secondary moderns!
They are unfair these days and those who like to bleat on about 'giving the bright DC from a deprived background a way out' know full well that they will tutor their average DC for 2 yrs and they certainly won't say-'that DC is far brighter, but hasn't seen a paper-he must have my drilled DCs place!!!
When I took it, people didn't have tutors and it was much fairer. I wish that they could have a system where it was impossible to have any preparation whatsoever and then they would really find the highly intelligent DC who could work it out for themselves.
I have always failed to understand, anyway, why only the bright child deserves a hand up from poverty and the rest are supposed 'to know their place and stay there'!!

I deliberately moved out of a grammar school area.

too be fair there is an opportunity to put that in your persoanl statement or on the CV but the truth is the admissions administrators read the GCSE results and then the personal statements if they like what they see IME.
Recruitment consultants and HR assistants do the same I would imagine.

Why on earth should most families have to move just so 6 children can sit in a maths class on their own. Truly gifted students are self starters they don't need to be taught lesson in and lesson out in a group of 6.

"I would ban coaching for the 11+ if I could..."

Or alternatively, in a grammar school area, bring coaching into primary schools, free of charge, so that children whose parents can't afford coaching have an equal chance with those that can.

Or we could just make comprehensives better so that all children get a better standard of education rather than those 6 children in a maths class

Those who could afford it would still have extra.

There are actually some wonderful comprehensives!!

I am sure there are.

mamatomany these days online application systems can AUTOMATICALLY REJECT CVs that lack the necessary results.

i just remeber my own extreme frustration at being teamed up with a girl who could barely read or write....i dreaded the lesson.

She's not at school for the other children's benefit, y'know Riven.

(Blimey have I been shot down in the past for suggesting going to school with children with SN is good for my own children)

Why is it good that other pupils have to help others instead of concentrating on their own education

It teaches selflessness, and a sense of community spirit.

I wouldn't want my DC to graduate with a first from Oxford, but not know how to reach out and help somebody else.

And do you really think school teaches that Lynette or does it come from the parents, extended family and church ?

And it's generally accepted that the socialization red herring is a load of cobblers and school does nothing foster that at all.

I truly believe my sons school does teach him to help others, but it's rather an unusual (faith) school. I certainly don't think all schools teach selflessness and helpfulness.

I have come across one out of the many we looked around and that was a private school with crap results but my goodness did the head make sure the children knew how lucky they were.

...you evidently don't think much of the teaching profession if you think their job can be done by a more-capable-than-average child.

if my kids really need help at school , i want it from a TA with the correct training, not from another kid.

ways kids help each other...

1. giving them the answer
2. doing the work for them
3. solidarity ie saying 'i can't do it either'

none of which helps anyone in the exam room.