To be really angry that a 58 year old man can verbally attack a 17 year old?

[jonicomelately]

Admittedly I know very little about the X Factor but as a mum I'm really disturbed that somebody can use a national magazine to destroy the reputation of such a young person.

I think at 17 you can't claim that you didn't realise what would happen. I think there was a real problem when they decided to let 14 year olds enter, but the producers obviously did too as they put the lower age limit up again.

As pagwatch says, most 17 year olds have seen the press coverage/heard how the contestants are discussed. You'd have to be unbelievably stupid to believe it won't happen to you.

I was stupid when I was 17 Damsel

Probably not that stupid. And I'm sure your mum would have made you very aware of all the hazards of your intended course of action.

I was stupid at 17 too, but not stupid enough to go on 'reality' tv.

It's pretty crap, but thats showbiz, it's what's always happened, performers are always exploited for their 'talent' - when the beatles were 17 they were off their faces on speed in hamburg being forced to play all night (hence the speed to keep going!) in seedy clubs, When Judy Garland she was being given speed by the studio bosses to stay awake long enough to produce all the movies the studio wanted, then babiturates to sleep.

A drubbing in the DM isn't so bad in comparison!

But where does the responsibility begin? It's easy enough to say that the producers of these shows have a responsibility to look out for the contestants etc etc but if at seventeen she's just a kid doesn't she have parents who should be looking out for her in the first instance? any seventeen year old of mine would be going on a show like that over my dead body. And even if at seventeen he was strong-willed and decided to go against my advice, I'd make damn sure I told him what it would involve beforehand.

I agree that often the earlier auditions make for very uncomfortable viewing given there are contestants on there who clearly have learning difficulties and mental health problems who are clearly being exploited (and it's worth bearing in mind here that in order to get to the judges you have to get through three auditions where clearly you are told that you're good enough/exactly what the show needs, just to be used as entertainment fodder down the track). But we've all seen the live shows, we've all seen the headlines, x-factor has been going on for .. five years?

So while people may not be aware of the actual audition process as this is not generally public knowledge, once it all goes to the live shows only an idiot would not realize that they were making themselves public property.

And the reality is that if these girls want to become famous then they have to learn that fame comes at a price.

I've never ever wanted to be famous but if I had a brilliant singing voice and lived in relative poverty I probably would've considered it. I think I'd have thought the risk was worth it or, like many teenagers that the pitfalls wouldn't apply to me. Guess it depends on what type of person you are. You could get a hundred people on here who would say that their teenager would know what the risks are before they sign up and maybe an equal amount whose kids are feet first types.

I also realise that a lot of people think 17 year olds are not children. I'm sorry but I disagree.

Dunno if you are BU or not, but you are being incredibly naive. If there isn't tension on the programme then someone has to create it (it's Louis' turn, this time). If it was a straightforward talent show with no suspense then the great unwashed would get bored.
It's got you talking, hasn't it? Sucker.

Sucker

I will admit I don't know the show as well as others obviously do but my point is about more than the show. It's about the popular press/media and how (imho) we're sleepwalking into accepting things that aren't right. I don't think that makes me naive.

RobynLou Wed 17-Nov-10 10:21:13
"It's pretty crap, but thats showbiz, it's what's always happened, performers are always exploited for their 'talent' "

Yes, what worries me about this particular one is that contestants are not actually being judged on their talent, but that some less talented ones are being manouevred into thinking they have more talent than they do because their lack of personal skills makes for good viewing. Like purit says, it is not a straigthforward talent show, because that doesn't pay. And I would say that does say something rather worrying about modern society: why do we prefer watching people who are not very talented behave in an uncontrolled fashion, as opposed to seeing really good and mature performers who know how to behave?

If a child of mine wanted to go into show business- well, as a matter of fact a child of mine does want to go into show business - I would (=will) do my utmost to steer her into the direction of those parts of it where you are judged (even if harshly) for the work you do, not as a freak show. If she did not see a show like X-factor for what it is, she would be getting those harsh comments right here at home. But I suppose the problem is that a 17yo who is that naive is likely to have parents who are also pretty naive.

Sorry, Joni.

But it's true; they do it purely to cause a ruck and a headline. It's like comedians who feel the need to be more and more 'edgy' (aka nasty and offensive). Or dear old Madge who had to be more and more outrageous, just to keep in the spotlight.

I agree with you that it is corrosive. The media only like bad news (if it bleeds, it leads) so celebrities indulge in more and more bad behaviour. You have to keep your feet on the ground, look at the people around you and remind yourself that RL doesn't work like that (thank goodness!)

What strikes me is that, if you look at a contestant like Rebecca (who, admittedly, has a great voice), she escapes all this bitching and backstabbing mainly because she's shy, quiet and unassuming (as the judges like to remind us at least 20 times during each show). She fulfils a stereotypically demure female role and the judges, audience and media let her be. In contrast, Cher has approximated a more 'challenging' demeanour, albeit one she's copied badly from american RnB, in order to define herself in contrast to more feminine performers.

If you look at Matt, (disregarding the falsetto for a moment) he's the male equivalent of Rebecca; when not on stage he's got a very blokeish presence and seems to just 'get on with it'. Again, he seems to escape any kind of controversy. Compare this with the way Aiden has been portrayed.

Its the people who challenge the proscribed gender roles who get the negative attention; it's just the agents of social control putting us all in our places once more. That's my amatuer sociology for the day anyway

um, matt was in the press over the weekend though.

Well purits, if I'm a sucker for talking about it so are you

Intergalactic. I think you are totally right. Because Cher is feisty and tomboyish and a bit different she seems to be fair game. Earlier posters on here have said she looks like she knows what she's doing etc.

I agree with the person who said Cher is actually being protected. I don't know how or why (maybe because she's 17) but the media haven't printed any of the well-known stories about Cher. Her schools (both the one she was in before the X Factor and the one she was expelled from before that) have agreed not to speak to the press, but I am sure before long the numerous girls (mostly younger) who have been bullied and visciously beaten by her will give their stories.
I'm not sure about every 17 year old being "moody", but her behaviour and attitude is well beyond that. If Simon Cowell and his mates turn another violent yob, much like Cheryl Cole (we've all forgotten the racist attack, haven't we?) into yet another role model for kids, I think we can personally blame them for any increase in teenage violence.
Twats.

OK Loopy, you seem to know more about her than most people and obviously she sounds like she's done some pretty unpleasant things. I'm still not certain this makes the attacks on her OK.

Interestingly Louis Walsh, who was main the subject matter of the post, has barely been mentioned.

I think she is vile

people don't have to like her. it doesn't matter if she's a huge sack of shit. she's only a singer. buy her records if you like her voice. if you don't - don't buy them.

What she's like as a person is not relevent, is it?

I don't have to like the person who takes out my bins. They just take out my bins.